Top 10 Lightweights of All Time

1. Mayweather in terms of skills is a better inside fighter than Arguello. Look at how on the inside he is rarely hit and counters cleanly.

2. Exactly Pryor is a small swarmer, stylistically small swarmers aren't supposed to beat taller swarmers who can bomb. Pryor took Arguello's best shots too. Aaron won though because he was more skilled, faster, better defense and generally just more refined than Arguello.

3. Whitaker and Mayweather wouldn't stay in range long enough for Arguello to get his shots off. They would pot shot or throw combinations and back out of range. When Arguello attempts to get his shots off they slip, side step and counter. The movement and angles they use would be too much for. Thats why I see it a as shutout.

Sometimes very good fighters get shut out or dominated and the similar Tito Trinidad, Pavlik, Corrales have all been dominated in recent years. As have Barrera, Hamed, Tyson and even Duran.

I see Arguello making a stiffer argument against Duran and Ortiz but losing widish UDs and maybe getting taken out late by Duran

4. Yep Arguello beats Castillo and Corrales, although they may win a few rounds and make it tough

5. I'm not sure HEarns-Mayweather is as easy a fight as some make out, I see it panning out like the Benitez match up. Arguello isnt as fast or skilled as Hearns though.

6. At FW Arguello lost to Marcel, I see Pepp and Sanchez beating him. Too much skill and movement

Armstrong would be an intriguing war he has a shot in imo. Styles suit him but Armstrong probably slips inside and swarms all over him

He's probably too much for Barrera although MAB may outbox him. He beats up Morales.

Pacquaio I'm unsure on, Pacman has the speed, Arguello the timing.

Marquez should outbox him but may get stopped. Marquez is a little too stationary

Hamed would be intriguing, both brutal punchers, hame hands down but better footwork, natural boxer and timing. Arguello better technically. Hamed is only 5'4, Arguello 5'11 so it favours Arguello. Although Hamed really used to batter some taller boxers in sparring.

7. I can't actually find any bouts were Pryor was actually at the LW limit. I actually think Mayweather peaked at 140. Interestingly most don't look at this but Mayweather uses allot of Pryor's moves and he's said Pryor is 1 of the fighters he rates highest. I pick Mayweather in a tough close contest 8-4 or 7-5, hes faster, more compact puncher, better defense, better footwork. Stamina is equal, Pryor is more aggressive and the most skilled pressure fighter FMJ would have faced but this pressure would leave countering opportunities. FMJ would just have the better connect percentage and cleaner work imo.

 

Pryor is all wrong for Mayweather. He would seriously beat him up and stop him.

Just seeing what you'd say!

Don;t agree with a lot of what you say but glad you've included hamed in amongst the best H2H FW's.

For the record;

I agree with your analysis of Morales Arguello. Would be a good fight styles wise for Arguello.

Barrera was stopped by Pacman at FW. Would be knocked unconscious by Alexis IMO.

Pacman too open when attacking at FW, not as well-rounded as he appears to be now. If he was rocked at SFW by Marquez (which he was) he would be stopped by Arguello IMO.

I'd say Arguello beats Hamed on PTS in a very exciting back-and-forth battle.

In 15 round fights I'd favour Arguello over all of these modern guys, the final three rounds were usually his.

Arguello was not a TALL SWARMER as you put it. Pyor's style is kryptonite to many; Great chin, non-stop offence, great skills as well, and very hurtful puncher.

Like a decent version of Margarito!

 

Jimmy Carter beats Lou Ambers yeah?

 

1. Disagree, a tough fight I see going FMJ's way, but maybe I'm biased, I just think FMJ was that good

2. 1 of my faves, met him a few times, could have been 1 of the greatest ever FWs, already is 1 of the best but could have been so much more

3. Yes although Morales may win a few early rounds before being broke down

4. Barrera was past prime and couldnt handle Pacman's speed and relentlessness. Against Arguello he would be the faster fighter, better boxer, better defense. Actually the match up is similar to Morales in some ways and Barrera owned Morales in all 3 fights for me. Arguello is the tougher prospect however. Barrera would need to fight the way he fought Morales 1 or Hamed. I'm split on this 1

5. Pacman and Arguello are both open to each other's shots and it really depends whether speed and athleticism or timing and reach win. Both are monumental beasts at the weight

6. Hamed is going to get tagged and so is Arguello, can see a few KDs. A 1995 Hamed would need to show up to have the best shot. He may well time some huge shots and befuddle Arguello. I'd lean 60-40 to Arguello on this 1 though, just too big for Hamed

7. Arguello had an element of boxer puncher combined with a high workrate, accuracy. I would say Pryor has underrated boxing skills, his pressure is relentless ofcourse none the less

 

Pryor indeed has underrated boxing skills. Actually, people in the know recognise this, not sure if they're 'underrated' per se but I see what you're getting at.

Between Pacman-Arguello I see it as who's got the better chin/power. Arguello in both cases IMO.

Barrera was not a better boxer than Alexis. Honestly, Alexis is an AWESOME boxer.

You're also underrating Arguello's defense, he had great head-upper body movement, caught shots well and was a terrific counter puncher. You don't be a great counter puncher unless you're a decent defensive boxer. He's no Pea (in terms of movement) or PBF (in terms of parrying/deflecting blows) but you don't seem to realise that anyone trying to tag Alexis was then setting themselves up for a counter shot; PBF in particular would be getting far more back in terms of power.

In a 12-round fight at LW I'd lean towards Floyd. At 130 I've already made my point clear. In a 15 round fight at LW I see it in kinda' similar way to Chavez-Taylor (not in styles but in outcome) with Floyd doing very well, seemingly winning the fight clearly and outpunching Arguello something like 3-to-1. However, any punches he is getting back are much more powerful, and by the end of the fight, although looking like a clear winner, he would look far worse than Alexis. That is when Arguello would start putting his combinations together and would beat Floyd IMO. But that is in a 15 ROUND fight. I'd favour Mayweather in 12.

Also, with Mayweather it is fine to put him in a 15 round contest IMO. It is clear he has the stamina and conditioning to go that far.

I've liked this little debate, I'd like to see what other people think of it now!

or indeed what they think of the original topic!

 

:desk

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Minotauro, he won't listen. I honestly think he might be getting him mixed up with someone else. There's no way anyone can think that about Arguello, out of all the people to say that about, he's chosen one of the best technical fighters of all time, a genuine all-rounder who, admittedly had problems with slick boxers but on his day might just be unbeatable at 126/130, and a very hard fight for any ATG LW.

 

Trust, I never met anyone who didn't rate Arguello highly the guy was a beast one of the greatest I rate him no 1 at 130. I remember Powerpuncher was convinced that Mayweather would be able to knock out Basilio (who has one of the greatest p4p chins ever.)

 

hahahaha probably Gavilan as well.

 

There were interviews with Don Dunphy, Beau Jack and Ike mainly talking about the brutal Williams/Jack KO from 1948, from a video I had in the 80s, but in conversation both Dunphy and Ike were real, real high on Nelson and Gans.

 

...

 

Hamed never sparred at all until he hooked up with Saurez and Steward. Under Brendan Ingle it was strictly pad work and body sparring he done. Strange, but true.

 

Is there anyway you could post that vid? It would be much appreciated.

 

1. Leonard
2. Duran (would be #1 if he hadn't quit to SRL)
3. Armstrong
4. Williams
5. Ross
6. Whitaker (could be higher)
7. Gans
8. Chavez (could be higher)
9. Arguello (could be higher)
10. Ortiz
Runners up: Canzoneri & McLarnin

In general, I could see just about any of these being moved up or down a notch. Very little to choose between a lot of these fighters.

 

How does the Leonard fight effect his Lightweight standing?