Top 25 Heavyweights OAT

Finally.. somebody has the good, common sense to rank Holyfield above Tyson.

 

Lewis was exactly the same age as Usyk is today. For a dozen or so months before the fight with Vitali, he practically didn't take a punch, and his style was remarkably long-lasting because it didn't rely entirely on footwork, speed, and reflexes, but on traits that fade last. Vitali hadn't fought anyone similar to Lewis and developed slowly. Being the same age as Lewis but lacking those traits, he returned after four years and had perhaps the best fight of his career. Lewis was a few pounds heavier than usual, which, given his size, is completely irrelevant. And in a fight full of grappling and clinching, it could only have helped him. The more I analyze this fight, the more I become convinced that Lewis was incredibly lucky. Why do you think he decided to retire after the Klitschko-Johnson fight and the WBC's ruling against Vitali for a rematch? Couldn't he calmly prepare for the rematch? No, it's easier to convince fans that he could have but didn't want to because his wife would have forbidden it.

 

Usyk beat a 35 yr old Fury at 37. Vitali was in his prime, Fury was not. Lewis's size is not completely irrelevant either. Lewis at a career heaviest (pre Klitschko fight)got knocked out by Rahman, there is clearly a decline in performance when he is that heavy. Not to mention Lewis is naturally very strong for his size, so extra fat does not help him more than it hurts him. Why are you ignoring this ? Address this

Tbh, Tyson fan should not be criticizing anyone for age and bringing up other fighters as proof. Tyson was 35 when Lewis smashed him. He was younger than Holyfield when he got beat up. Ali was completely shot at 35. Fury was already past it in his mid 30s (as it should be) the majority think joshua is done at 36 even before the crash and the there are 0 heavyweights besides Usyk in this era that won a major world title past 33. It's unusual to be so old and be a heavyweight champion even though it can happen, so whats your point ?

Lewis was pushing 40 years old, he was at a career heaviest, he admitted to underestimating Vitali and he took him on 2 weeks notice. Yeah no, I'm not sweeping all of this, these are facts. You can't claim that Lewis was in his prime against Vitali as a fact, It's not realistic. Vitali wasn't the sole reason Lewis looked pretty bad that night. That is the worst Lewis I've ever seen.

Many fighters even nowadays are well past their prime at 37, this is a common thing because it's simple biology that you are trying to argue against, Lewis's style does not change biology, everyone ages different but there comes a point when no amount of experience will allow you to beat a younger fresher version of yourself. That point is around 36 on average. Just use google. The Lewis that showed up against Vitali is worse than the version that showed up against Rahman for obvious reasons

 

Lewis has aged remarkably well, he said so himself, and it was evident in the ring. He spoke about his disregard for Vito after the fight, explaining why he performed so poorly. He didn't fight badly against Rahman I at all; he fought just as well as in the first fight, but he got caught with a powerful punch, which indicates his weak jaw.

Why don't you mention that Mercer weighed much more than usual against Lewis. He was 35 and inactive, battling addictions, yet he gave him a completely even fight? However, Lennox's fans keep writing about him being in the form of his life, even though everything points to Lennox catching him at a low point. Frankly, 39-year-old Tim Whitearspoon looked better against him in his next fight than LL, even though he was also much older and heavier than against Smith or Holmes. Tyson was also overweight against Lewis, which, given his style, was suicidal, but then again, different criteria apply to Tyson.

Lewis was simply weaker than Vito. Klitschko knew it, Lennox himself knew it, damn it – even his wife knew it, only his fans deny it.

Why did Lennox wait to surrender the WBC title until Vito was announced as mandatory challenger? His wife spent six months trying to convince him to do so?

 

For a heavyweight yes he did age well, most heavyweights fall off the top level at his age, but he was past his prime and looked to be in his worst condition against Vitali. I don't see a substantial argument that Lewis was at his peak against Klitschko. You mention he disregarded Vitali which could have contributed to his poor performance, yet you insist Lewis was at his best when he couldn't have been based off that, it doesn't make any sense from your end. You mentioned Usyk earlier, yet nobody in their right mind would consider Usyk to be prime now, he's clearly declined despite still doing well. Lewis blocked lots of shots from Mercer with the high gaurd and the right hand tucked up, this is probably why he won on the judges cards, not to mention Lewis would still beat any version of Witherspoon regardless, assessing boxers off their common opponents will only take you so far. Mercer didn't look bad against Lewis, thats why his age of 35 is rarely brought up, Holyfields age is brought up plenty and is a big criticism even though he was about 3 years older, but at least Lewis beat them

Lewis looked bad against Rahman. He looked less coordinated and wasn't as reactive as usual and slipping shots as much as he could've, but he performed way better in fight 2 and was 245lb. Likely overconfident in the first fight and had less motivation, similar thing with Vitali, he said he saw Vitali as a typical stiff upright euro fighter and took him on short notice but he was wrong. Lewis waiting several months to relinquish his belt doesn't prove anything, resting and needing some time to contemplate how to end his career seems reasonable.

This may sound like excuse making to you but this whole thing started because you put Vitali above Lewis on the all time great rankings, that is a nonsensical position, we can forget about this dragged on debate about Lewis's condition in the fight. Reality is Lewis beat Vitali while on the wrong side of 30 and not in his best fighting shape, fact. He won the fight via accumulated damage and retired while having a better resume than Vitali all time. Vitali Klitschko cannot rank higher than Lennox Lewis it's delusional point blank

 

The 37-year-old Usyk beat the much younger Dubois much more easily than the 35-year-old Usyk, even though DDD seemed to be better than before. And Usyk bases his boxing on quick, quick footwork, not a powerful single punch and a cosmic reach that doesn't age.

I ranked Vito higher because he wasn't knocked out by the Youneymen like Lewis, didn't fight to the death against opponents like Mercer, and outclassed opponents like Mavrović completely. However, I miss names like Tyson and Holyfield, who were shadows of their former selves before they faced Lewis, and those fights were utterly rubbish. However, I don't look at them based on their names, but on their actual athletic merit. Lewis's biggest career rival was the 38-year-old Holyfield, whom he might have won by one round more, or maybe not. Just like 10 months later, he should have won against Holy John Ruiz. But I don't see John Ruiz in the top 25, even though his best fights are just like Lennox's. He also won against Rahman
Lewis beat big names. Vit beat challengers and didn't relinquish his titles, either in the ring or on the green.

 

That's Daniel Dubois, not Vitali Klitschko or an elite fighter imo, so already a bit of a false equivalence. Fury was 35. Furthermore Dubois is a quitter, he got up soundly and walked back to his corner as soon as the ref waved it. Lewis doesn't base his style on pure size and strength that is a severe reductionist view. He uses his feet along with his lead to dictate range, his timing, coordination and counter punching will still be offset by diminished reflexes and athleticism

Ruiz lost to Nicholson and Toney, got beat up by Roy Jones and was dispatched by Tua in the first 5 seconds. His resume is incredibly thin compared to lennox even with as full context nor did he avenge his losses, he even lost to Holyfield the first time so thats a laughable comparison. You criticize Lewis for fighting some past it fighters but don't even acknowledge it for anyone else, especially Vitali. Sanders was 38, Lewis was 37, Donald was 38, 0 consistency.

How many heavyweights are beating a young Vitali at 37, go ahead, name 2. Lewis and Usyk are the only ones that come to mind. Holmes and Tyson aren't doing it. Alis not doing it. Holyfields not doing it. Would Foreman even do it ? Yeah idk about that one.

Anyone who thinks Vitali ranks higher than Lewis needs their head checked. He literally lost to Lewis and beat less ranked opponents

 

My friend, I don't mean to offend you, but if you think a lack of heart was the reason for DDD's defeat to Usyk, you should get yourself checked out. Usyk won every round at 38, he did it more clearly than at 36, although Daniel seemed better before the second fight, and Usyk's style isn't based on astronomical arm reach, powerful punches, and power.

I don't know what the fact that Lewis was still great at 37 has to do with it. We agree, after all. Do I have to ask you which 22-year-old could knock out a 38-year-old Larry Holmes? Or which 46-year-old could knock out Michael Moorer? Or which 37-year-old could return after a four-year layoff and easily win the WBC title? Everyone ages differently, has different stages in their career. Is Hopkins better than Jones because he beat him years later, not when they were both in their prime?

Tell me about Lewis's biggest victories, at any point. In his greatest fights, I saw him in grueling fights against big names who had long since lost their form. Lewis outlasted them, Vita couldn't because he was getting better and better. Don't you see that?

 

You admit every fighter ages different down below, so what does this prove about Lewis ?

Who is Vitalis best win again ?

Lewis was past his peak in that fight end of. TKO6. Regardless of his level he was on the slide at that point, plus he has a better record than Vitali. Also Vitali was not getting better post Lewis. He was like 31 and retired 1½ years later.

I'll make this easier, many heavyweights a couple years removed from their prime and on the decline would you favor to beat Vitali ? A tiny selection of about 4 from the entirety of elite heavyweights maybe ?

You have to be objective here, as much as you don't like Lewis, putting him below V all time is criminal

 

You're completely missing the point. The context is that Usyk, at 38, overcomes the same obstacle more easily than he did at 36, but although his style ages faster than Lewis's, there's no problem with that.

You keep bringing up the age issue. If the ranking were top heavyweights ever plus 37, Lewis might be in the top 5 alongside Usyk, the Klitschkos, and Holmes, maybe Foreman. Tyson and Ali wouldn't even be in the top 100. What are we talking about?

I get the impression you didn't watch the Lewis-Klitschko fight. Vit was much better. But Lewis managed to cut him. Similarly, Povetkin, in his first fight with Diliam Whyte, managed to defeat Whyte, but he gave him a rematch to prove it wasn't a fluke. But it was a fluke.

Vit was knocked down by the ringside docto

 

Winning 4-2 with 3-3 being a possible score isn't "much better". A lot of fighters were winning on the scorecards but got stopped, just like Vitali.

Povetkin fought Whyte rematch after he caught covid and was not the same, so the comparison is invalid.

Ringside doctor got into the ring and knocked Vitali down xD? You know that if the fight continued Vitali might have been pernamently damaged and never fight again?

 

You have already admitted everyone ages different so again what does this say about Lennox ? Vitali Klitschko is leagues above Dubois lmao, even you wouldn't deny this

But it's not. It's a top 25 list and you put Vitali above Lewis all time which is an asinine take

I did. We all did. Vitali won the first 2 rounds, Lewis won the 3rd and the 6th, the 5th was close with a slight edge to Vitali. An aging Lewis had the momentum at the end and Vitalis face was getting worse, he couldn't even see out of 1 eye and had 3 separate gashes not just 1, so the idea that it was a fluke doesn't hold. The reality is Lennox was in a good position to force a late round stoppage because there were 6 rounds to go and Vitali had impaired vision, not to mention Lewis landed on Vitali more than any other opponent, which is a statistic not to be ignored. That was the worst version version of Lennox I have ever seen, Rahman knocked out a better version of Lennox in 6 rounds, Vitali couldn't do it and got about 60 stitches from the holes punched into his face. He lost

Prime Lewis > prime Vitali

 

You claim that with Vit you saw the worst version of Lennox. But who did you see the best with? And who among Lewis's rivals was better than Vit?

 

Lewis looked technically at his peak late 90s to 2000, I'd probably say Holyfield 1 or Akinwande or Briggs or Golota but regardless, Lewis wasn't in peak condition against Vitali or Tyson (who was shot) and he was aging and underestimated Vitali on top of this. Vitali would always give him problems but you are not being consistent or logical about context and rankings, you are being a hater and I don't want to reduce it to that, but it seems appropriate

Vitali had his chance to be greater than Lewis by dethroning him and moving on to dominate the next era but he lost and beat like half the opposition that Lewis did... nah

 

1. Muhammed Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Oleksandr Usyk
4. Rocky Marciano
5. George Foreman
6. Larry Holmes
7. Jack Dempsey
8. Wladimir Klitschko
9. Lennox Lewis
10. Sonny Liston
11. Jack Johnson
12. Joe Frazier
13. Evander Holyfield
14, Vitali Klitschko
15. Gene Tunney
16. Max Schmeling
17. Mike Tyson
18. Riddick Bowe
19. Tyson Fury
20. Anthony Joshua
21. Max Baer
22. Floyd Patterson
23. Ken Norton
24. Alexander Povetkin
25. Deontay Wilder