Toughest oppositions faced , win or lose

Charles may b mentioned later as a lightheavyweight if i'll get there .
Louis was 7 yrs older than Charles and Charles didn't beat him anyway . I don't care if he won most rds by a fraction of d pikopoint , it doesn't even count as winning rds 4 me , it was a disgusting display of ineffective carefulness against n old plodder , D defensively minded Cream did way much better against a younger Louis , infinitely better . Cream also got d better of Charles himself .
Charles beat d much smaller Charley Burley but in a p4p sense it counts more in favor of Burley and doesn't count here at all as it was about heavyweights .
Yarosz a much older man , smaller and again not close 2 being a HW .
Lloyd Marshall was a well beaten man by d time Charles barely scrambled 2 stop him after Marshall stopped him in their 1st fight and far from a HW also .
Even on a p4p sense it shows how overrated Charles is . Like Markegiano , Ali and many others he has d names but without their value .
Markegiano destroyed already ruined old men , so did Charles and many more .
His wins over Wright r good , and as a lightheavy Charles is top 10 , possibly top 5 h2h , putting Charles inside d top 30 is overrating him on d expense of others u underrate :
Langford , Armstrong , Chavez , Sanchez , Duran deserve it better , and while u'll disagree , so do Toney , McCall , Tua , LaPorte , Camacho , Thobella (2 time lightweight and 1 time supermiddleweight titlist) , Nazarov (great record especially considering his disabilities which even were not his fault) , Ramirez , Qawi , Willie Joyce , Sammy Angott , Charley Burley (whom u underrate by only putting him in your top 50 p4p) . I think Richard Ihetu and Emile Griffith may also deserve it better than Charles , like it or not .
Walker Smith Jr. can IMO b ranked lower than Charles despite i usually have him higher but if u swap them i won't have much problem with it .
I think there may also b n argument 4 ranking Tyson p4p higher than Charles and actually Doug Jones did better than him in a p4p sense :
Jones was a big lightheavy fighting bigger heavyweights and got stopped only a few times which was still impressive considering d gape in size and considering his style .
Charles was a much more careful fighter , a huge middleweight 4 his time and even a big lightheavy 4 his time who still got stopped by smaller and older men , and even suffered a bad beating in many of his wins and in others he did not win impressively . I still have him in my top 50 but don't ignore these facts .
Charles was a warrior but there were better warriors 2 whom u do injustice by omitting them from your top 50 if u have a top 50 and including Charles in your top 20 .

 

Vitali was 9 yrs younger , Wladimir was 14 yrs younger and Tua 10 yrs younger .

D same could b claimed about Bruno .
Holyfield might have a case that Ruddock , Golota & Morison were not deserving enough , at least after him stopping Tyson and more so after his 2 fights against Lewis.
D same could b claimed about Bruno .


However , McCall , Norris & Akinwande were 3 yrs younger as opposed 2d bigger gapes above (except from Ruddock & Bruno) and together with their round robin partner , Tony Tucker (3 yrs older than Holyfield) have a better claim 2 being avoided by him .

 

Out of all d fighters throught history it is Oscar De La Hoya's absence that bothers u all ?

11 yrs older and smaller Chavez & Camacho , 9 yrs older and smaller Pernell Whitaker , 8 yrs older , but bigger Bernard Hopkins , evenly aged and bigger Chito Trinidad , 4 yrs older Isufu Quartey , Shane Mosley*2 , bigger&younger Felix Sturm , much smaller and younger Emanuel Pacquiao , smaller and 4 yrs younger Floyd Mayweather and i guess a few more r nice but will probably not b enough 2 make d cut according 2 my critera , remember it's not all about names here , size , age and state count 4 me .
D line should b drawed somewhere and i think Oscar will stay outside , his opposition was good , but not a candidate 4 toughest .
I think Salvador Sanchez , Julio Cesar Chavez , Jose Luis Ramirez , Pernell Whitaker , Hector Camacho , Edwin Rosario , Frankie Randall , Juan LaPorte , Vinny Pazienza r some of d names u r supposed 2 miss here , I may later continue this thread down d weights , but currently i want 2 try 2 exhaust d HW candidates , among other things i have 2do .

 

Cruiserweight :
Evander Holyfield and Orlin Norris do not need 2b reintroduced , although their cruiserweight opposition adds big time 2 their heavyweight opposition mentioned previously in this thread .

These fighters' resumes actually don't make d cut 4 this weight :

Muhammad Qawi , O'neil Bell and Kelvin Davis , Uriah Grant , James Warring , Nate Miller and Carl Thompson .

Alfred Cole's resume wins big here



Alfred Cole : Nate Miller*2 , James Warring , Uriah Grant*2 , Tim Witherspoon , Michael Grant , Kirk Johnson*2 , Corrie Sanders , Jameel McCline , Juan Carlos Gomez , Sultanakhmed Ibragimov , Jeremy Williams , David Izon , Lance Whitaker , Hasim Rahman , Timur Ibragimov , Danny Williams .
Al Cole actually qualifies as a heavyweight more than he does as a cruiserweight


Johnny Nelson : Carlos DeLeon , James Warring , Norbert Ekassi , Corrie Sanders , Jimmy Thunder , Henry Akinwande , Carl Thompson , Ezra Sellers , Guillermo Jones .

These guys' resumes r kept honest compared 2d above :


Arthur Williams :
O'neil Bell*2 , Orlin Norris*2 , Chris Byrd , Muhammad Qawi , Vassily Jirov , Adolpho Washington , Imamu Mayfield , Kelvin Davis .


Adolpho Washington : Virgil Hill , Iran Barkley , Anaclet Wamba , Orlin Norris *2 , Arthur Williams , Uriah Grant , James Toney

 

Ali : 26 yrs older Archie Wright , 11 yrs older Zora Folley , 10 yrs older and literally shot Cleveland Williams as his "best performance" , Henry Cooper*2 (old , cut prone , smaller and never that good even by potential , is only mentioned here because even he was enough 2 give Ali & Bugner (but not Floyd Pattersonand others) fits) ,
7 yrs older and much smaller Floyd Patterson*2 (once with n injured back and once @ age 37)
Sonny Liston *2 (2 controversial fights vs n aging (and at least 10 yrs older) Liston)
Joe Bugner*2 (if not 4 his 3 fights vs faded Ali&Frazier , he would have never been looked at by any1 , Bugner never had/was d goods)
Bob "Thin China" Foster (reigning LHW champion @ d weight's all time low)
Alejandro Lavorante (prior 2 his fight vs Ali stopped in 10 by 46 years old Archie Wright and had 2b carried out of d ring on a stretcher) , Wright was even well ahead on points prior 2d stoppage . should i have mentioned him (Lavorante) ? he deserves it as much as d names above him in this post , Lavorante's claim 2 fame : a KO over Zora Folley :yep

..

these names wouldn't have been mentioned by me but lufcrazy wants it this way .

Much smaller Doug Jones , Joe Frazier*3 , Ken Norton*3 , Jimmy Young , Earnie Shavers , George Foreman (successful cheating by Dundee&Ali) ,
Ron Lyle , Buster Mathis , Jerry Quarry*2 , George Chuvalo*2 , Mac Foster , Ernie Terrell , Oscar Bonavena , Leon Spinks*2 , Trevor Berbick , Larry Holmes .

but overall , Ali's opposition was tough , even if not d toughest .
Ali had size advantage over almost every1 on his record , d few times he had a small size disadvantage he made up 4 it by a well coordinated and planned cheating with his dear trainer Angelo Dundee .
Either having criminally loosened ropes vs Foreman and exploiting them of course , thumbing Ernie Terrell , or just fighting d Collin Wilson of his era , namely Joe Bugner . Bugner was only 1 inch taller than Ali anyway and Foreman half n inch taller than Ali .
Norton was evenly sized , seemingly shorter , but Norton did Handle Ali 3 times .