Tyson and Fraziers Styles: Where they really similar?

That's basically it. There were some similarities in their techniques, but one was more of a frontrunner, while the other was more methodical and consistent. I also think Frazier was a bit more adaptable, ie: he seemed more comfortable fighting while backing up.

 

Tyson has an ATG defense, he was rarely hit in his prime, Foreman telegraphs his shots a bit and couldn't land too many cleanly against Ali and he may have trouble landing on the different but defensively great Tyson. You say 'Foreman sets things up with the jab', Tyson is maybe the best jab slipper of all time in his prime, no one was landing jabs for the most part. And whats more Tyson made you pay when you missed shots with massive counters. Tyson also had faster hands, better technical shots, better footwork and the power to KO George.

Tyson KO6

 

You should re-evaluate that originally thought.

Tyson has that huge neck so he can take punches. Foreman's power is more, though.

Ironically his resilience is staggeringly disappointing. He can take a terrific beating but doesn't have the zest or life to fight back with real care and resilience. He never has... I don't believe that all of a sudden a better version of Tyson in 88 does. That was just his makeup and he never had a chance since nobody gave him a good enough fight.

Pawing?

You must be really down on Frazier in 73. Frazier really isn't that past it at this point to be perfectly honest. A little overweight, and a tad bit less focused. You said it yourself that Frazier was in his prime against Ali in FOTC. That's 2 years ago. So Frazier either has a bad chin or Foreman has tremendous power. Either way you can't discredit the devastation of this win. So which one is it?

So 1 fight he is in his prime and then the next he's clearly not the same? I agree that he declined and the fight took a lot out of him but I feel these sharp declines and downfalls fighters have can be overstated. But I agree, he wasn't at his best. But the Foreman fight was only 3 fights later. The Stander fight makes Joe look bad at times. The way he gets reeled to the ropes.

Nothing foolish about it. Seeing as that was Foreman in the 92 rather than 88. Frazier can age in just 1 fight but Foreman can't in 4 years after being over 40? Besides, that's a terrible outing by Foreman and he underestimate Stewart. You can clearly see a much better Foreman in 91 against Holyfield.

Foreman gave a good showing. Rocked Holyfield with what he said was the "hardest punch he ever got hit with."

Foreman has reach, height, the jab, the uppercut, his heart and resilience.

If you think tools are the only thing that matters in a fight then you're seriously mistaking. What advantage did Holyfield have on Tyson in 96? Very little, especially seeing Holyfield's latest poor 2 losses and showings. Tyson on the other hand looked much better on paper but it didn't go that way. Why else was it such a big upset? The mind is half the battle. And this is an important point. Foreman will be willing to fight for longer and his power is devasating. How can Tyson respond to that or being knocked down? Track record is bad. Tyson basically has to bing Foreman out of there real quick to have a chance. I think he gets scratched up along the way and doens't like it. Besides going after Foreman is a no-no.

Check out the thread we can continue there I guess.

 

On the subject of Tyson-Foreman, i clearly see arguments for both me.

Foreman-

Basically he can win by putting Tyson on the backfoot with his strength, taking his opponent out of his comfort zone.

Tyson-

His calculated, accurate shots to both body and head, struck with precision and speed, could they mean trouble for a man who has a question mark over his stamina?

There's an argument for both men, very difficult to say. I doubt there's an outright wrong answer here.

 

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On the level of a Liston and Holmes.

Tell that to Chuvalo, Moore, Peralta, and others that. What does utilization of something have to do with the greatness of something. When did Liston single handedly dominate an opponent with just his jab?

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He's certainly quicker than Liston in my honest opinion.

Foreman has much better handspeed. This is a fact. Watch the film. Liston is the better technician and boxer but he gets wild and throws some looping punches when opponents are hurt. That 84 reach and bulky frame is a lot to carry. Foreman reels combos with ease. His handspeed is very underrated.

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Foreman had light feet for such a huge man.

He did. In fact his feet were lighter and better than a Frazier at that time. Foreman could dance and bop around. Frazier in Jamaica looked like he had cement in his feet. That's one of the things Joe lost a lot of and it's his pressure pace. In the Bugner fight he doesn't have the quick footwork he did against Foster/Ellis.

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Once Tyson goes down he will be bewildered. Again and he will quit.
I've already said that Tyson's history of losing fights in which he is decked is a factor.

Oh man, some of you guys really hold onto things literally. Tyson isn't going to "quit" in the sense of walking out of the ring. But he won't be there. He'll have his life taken out the way he did against Holyfield, Lewis, and Douglas when he was down on the cards, hurt at times or floored. He won't put up that gutsy willful effort. He will be broken down. The only thing outrageous is your complete misunderstanding. Seriously, taking a beating and taking a beating while trying to fight back to win are two entirely different concepts. Something you don't seem to understand.

I just think Foreman can hurt Tyson and frustrate him. I think Tyson doesn't do well when he is down, repeatedly hurt or losing against. And guess what? Everything I say is proven through history. I'm not saying Tyson is a quitter or would quit. He may be there, but he may be quitting on himself in the fight to actually show that resiliency to fight back.

Teddy Atlas once said a guy Tyson was busting on in the gym didn't want to quit and Tyson almost wanted to quit because of this.

I just don't think he can put Foreman away and when Foreman shows him that power and that uppercut it will be bad for Tyson

Terrible style matchup

And no I don't overrate Foreman you underrate him.

 

Probably the best thing said.

But a man who's fighting a go who won't back up and has tremendous power won't disrupt Tyson? A Foreman that jabbed and set up those bombs and eventually catches Tyson with an uppercut. A man that lifted Frazier practically off the canvas

Tyson really has to come out and bing Foreman out of there. Something I don't see him doing. Foreman has more fight and I feel that Tyson only chance to win is if you look at his attributes on paper. Just like how many thought he would beat Holyfield.

 

Yeah i think it's difficult, McGrain does make a very good case for Tyson in the other thread on this subject in fairness. But then i can't get it out of my head what you are saying here. To be honest i don't really think it's the ja of Foreman that is the real danger her, just that strength and pwerful shots to go with it.

Difficult for me.

 

Yea. And if it's fair I only pick a prime Ali and Foreman to beat a prime Tyson. On paper, Tyson is the greatest fighter who ever lived. But in reality, the water thickens and things can become a bit more interesting.

Stylistically, I see it as the worst fight for Tyson.

*Edit* Maybe Bowe too but not sure. His prime is quite limited. Still...

 

Yeah good post in fairness, even though i'm a tyson nut-hugger!!

 

Haha, that's all the more impressive than (Your posts). I knew you liked him, but I also know you try being as objective as possible (Like everyone else here. But others just come to different conclusions).

I suppose you could call me a Foreman fan. He's one of my favorite fighters... but then again so is Tyson. How can you not love Tyson? That explosiveness and ferocity is always awesome to watch. Such precision, speed, and power.

 

You know why i really luv Tyson though?

'I'm Sonny Liston, I'm Jack Dempsey.......'

That quote, it's just amazing! I'm not really a hugger, certainly a fan though, to put it mildly.