Frazier takes a punch to land a punch and has the inferior skill set. Against a puncher that is bad news, as is the fact he'd have trouble getting his own shots off. You could argue Frazier walks through fire and brings it on late like Holy managed, but Tyson was a shadow of himself there and a 5round fighter, plus Holy used straighter punches to do the job, hooking with a hooker like Tyson is far less effective
Tyson was not a shell of himself. He was the younger man by four years and had been active going into the bout. He looked very good against Bruno. He was not the focused man of 86 - 88 but Holyfield was the one with more mileage and wear n tear ...
Tyson had like 7rounds in 4years, that means he isnt even a fighter anymore basically, boxers need rounds to fight for rounds, 3years inside ruined him physically too
Frazier started off bad as proven in the 3rd fight against Ali and others but I can't remember other examples. If my memory serves me right I think he started bad against Bonavena too? But anyways I'd have to say Tyson by tko stoppage in the early rounds.
People speak as if Frazier had a glass jaw because he was knocked out 2 in his career by one of the hardest punchers in Heavyweight history. Nothing could be further from the truth. At his best Frazier had very good recuperative powers as evidenced by the Bonavena and Quarry fights. Tyson rarely fought a Man like Frazier who was entirely fearless. And I think we all understand that Tysons' resolve wasn't the best. Tyson would put Frazier down early no doubt, but by the 4th rd. IMO, Fraziers found the range with his left, and bests Tyson on the inside, and begins to pound Tyson with a viscious body beating, systematically wearing him down. I like Frazier by a close but unaminous decision or possible late KO in a vicious brawl.
Tyson 5'10 3.75 - 5'11, Frazier 5'11 3.75. Tyson was not bigger than Frazier, and a lot of people on this Forum are underrating Frazier's leg strength related to his punching power. No doubt, Tyson had the chest and arm factor in his favour size-wise, and overall power, but I'd give the legs to Frazier. Both men had very strong shoulders too. Still too much immediate comparisons to George Foreman and what he did to Frazier in 1973. Tyson would barely hit the FOTC conditioned Frazier and IF he doesn't stop Joe inside 6 rounds, Tyson won't make it to round 10 against a prime Joe Frazier. Compared to Ali, anyone is a slow starter, but Frazier is not a slow as people say he is on this forum which I find quite rediculous. Either way, this would be a non-stop action fight with Frazier perhaps visiting the canvas once or twice within the first few rounds. Tyson visits the canvas a couple times after the middle rounds and I wouldn't bet on him getting up if he's still in the fight at round 10 against Frazier.
Tyson had stronger legs. Frazier had trouble military pressing 90 or so pounds I've heard. Yet, Quarry was landing frequently. So was Ellis. Tyson is faster, and more explosive. Do you work for Joe Frazier? I'm just wondering because 90% of your posts deal with propping him up. You don't even try to examine the other said. You basically think a 1968-1970 Frazier beats any HW... he even might beat Foreman.
The generally held view is that if Tyson catches Frazier early he wins by knockout, but if Frazier weathers the storm and gets past the first few rounds he had the stamina and heart to stop Tyson later in the fight. So it all boils down to whether you believe that Tyson will be able to finish the job early or not. Or from Joe's perspective, whether he will be able to survive the opening rounds or not. Though both scenarios are possible, personally I don't think Joe gets past the dangerous (for him) early rounds.
What I will say is I don't agree with the view of some that this would look necessarily look like Foreman v Frazier. Now I'm not saying Tyson isn't strong, but Foreman was arguably in my eyes the strongest HW of all-time and had huge presence. Tyson is intimidating, but I think Frazier is equal to or perhaps even slightly stronger, and he's intimidating in his own right, more so in my eye's than Tyson. I think Mike would be a bit un-nerved by Frazier like he was vs Holyfield. Frazier has a real chance if he can get to Mike mentally, and try to limit his punch output by ruling on the inside with his strength. However, Tyson is obviously quicker and has a better variety of weapons on the offense along with obviously power. If Frazier can make Tyson miss and dig deep and take any big punches that do land, he can eventually start to grind Tyson down and stop him around 9 or 10. Could he whether the first 2, 3 or 4 rounds though? That's a big, big if.
When did I say Frazier had a glass jaw? He doesnt but neither did Larry Holmes, Spinks, Thomas etc etc. Frazier is easy to hit, and Tyson is a faster more accurate puncher than Foreman and just as devastating Why do you think Frazier beats Tyson on the inside, given he has slower hands and Tyson has an equally good body attack and used a brutal uppercut far more frequently? How would Frazier get inside without being smashed on the way in? Also Tysons skill is far far better than Fraziers
This should be a highly entertaining fight while it lasts, but as much as I respect Frazier it probably wouldn't be a good night for him. So lets say this is 1969-1971 Prime Frazier vs. 1986-1988 Prime Tyson, or indeed for absolute Primes: 1971 vs. 1988. Tyson is the 'bigger train' perhaps not in height but certainly in other body measurements. Mike is stronger in upper body and legs, has an iron chin which could take a brutal left hook from Frazier if one were to land, on the other hand Frazier would likely be in trouble from an power uppercut or hook from either of Tyson's hands. His left is a more potent than Frazier's and his right is considerably so, his hand speed is significantly faster, his foot work is also better, his head movement is superior as is his defence and accuracy. For Frazier, he has amazing stamina and a heart that is only equalled by Marciano - however he will not enjoy the benefits of either of these, well other than the heart of course allowing him to keep getting up until the referee stops it. The deciding factor though is that Frazier is a slow starter and Tyson will take advantage of this to hurt him early, overwhelming him with rapid combinations of 3,4,5 punches. My bet is that Frazier fights bravely but is beaten by TKO within 6 ferocious rounds. Although I must say that I give Frazier* (*not after Manila) increased chances of success with a post-Rooney Tyson and particularly his chances multiply greatly against a post-prison Tyson. I can definitely see him wearing down the body and stopping in late rounds for instance the 1996 Tyson that fought Holyfield; the poor conditioning making for low stamina, the lack of elusiveness, ragged defence, along with reliance of head-hunting with singular power punches; will mean Tyson gets tried after round 5, Frazier can easily land punches and Tyson will have big trouble landing his own, wild shots lacking his previous accuracy.
Frazier against fellow sluggers of a similar stature to himself (I'm thinking Quarry, Stander, Bonavena) would literally lock horns - he'd be literally head down over his opponents shoulder (literally ear-to-ear with them) - sometimes burying his head in his opponents chest or tucked in close to one or the other of his opponents biceps to keep safe and minimise the amount of punching room - but still Joe did get shaken a couple of times in the first round by Jerry Quarry, and Quarry was physically muscling Joe back. Ron Stander buckled Fraziers knees in the first round and Frazier did find himself having to back up often for punching room, Bonavena also was forcing Frazier back physically in the first couple of rounds and bounced him off the canvas twice in the 2nd round (in fact Frazier was perilously close to going down for a fight-ending third time in that one) - but then I guess if you were being super critical you could say that in a similar way even say Peter McNeeley - in his ridiculously charge across the ring - was hustling and bustling Tyson back for a brief shining moment, forcing him back onto the ropes where (I think) Tyson looked genuinely surprised and a bit rattled - like he wasn't expecting to be punched back like this into a defensive shell? McNeeley muscled Tyson back (sounds ridiculous I know - but if you watch the fight again - it's what happened for 30 seconids or so) Obviously as soon as Tyson executed some short sharp compact shots McNeeley suddenly realised he was way way out of his depth. I'm not really sure what Tyson's true height is to be honest (I know he's listed as 5'11 3/4") but I have a work friend who met him in an all night clothes store in Vegas and had a picture with him and this work mate of mine is six foot and Tyson was quite a bit shorter than him - I'd guess in reality he probably no more then 5'9". I asked that work mate and he said "probably 5'8"/5'9" (but he also said his head and his hands were massive!!). Anyways I see Frazier and Tyson certainly locking horns and I also see both of them doing their fair share of backing up for punching room aswell - and I see both men being shaken and punched back on their heals - both will have their moments of looking like they might have the other one going - (funnily enough I see Frazier being the one more likely to be refusing to back off - I think he was that kind of macho type to want to prove that above all else he was the toughest) but I don't think it would be a very wise thing - Tyson I think in his heyday would simply try to be elusive and fast and his greater hand speed and more devastating power through actual body-to-head combination punching would shock Frazier and have have him bouncing up and down glassy eyed - Tyson in 4.
I think the Frazier of 1968 - 1970 has a legit shot at beating every heavyweight, contender or champion, important heavyweight or anyone else that has boxed professional as a heavyweight. Not same he would, but based on who he was as a champion, I'd give him every chance. Why wouldnt he be able to? Who would KO the FOTC version of Frazier with the relative ease that Foreman did to a depleted Frazier two years later? Nobody IMO. Foreman readilly acknowledged Frazier's greatness and the fear he had for the man in two different interviews. Frazier's head movement is faster and more frequent than Tysons. In fact, as Tyson stood up a lot more in his career as opposed to Frazier. I think you underestimate him Pete, perhaps with more thoughts of Marciano in the back of your mind that you're hesistant to use examples from. Joe gets underrated on this board and I don't believe Tyson would have the endurance or toughness to last an entire fight with Frazier coming after him. I think you tend to look at the Foreman fight and conclude like most that Joe would get whupped by Tyson which is wrong. If a blown up cruiserweight in Holyfield could put Tyson down witnout much head movement, basically countering, why wouldn't a FOTC conditioned Frazier who was one of the greatest pressure heavies be able to do the same damage if not more? Both fighters would land bombs, but I don't believe Mike would beat FOTC or the Joe Frazier of 1967 - 1970. Your throwing his toughness, endurance and heart for nothing if you write a prime Frazier off against Tyson that quickly. No I don't work for Frazier, but I've met and talked to George Chuvalo, Larry Holmes and Shavers, who give Joe a lot more respect than people on this forum do.
Tyson is 5'11 3/4. There's a video of him next to a ruler painted on a wall, he's over 5'11 barefoot.