No, he didn't. I've just spent out why. One is five inches shorter than Usyk, and the other is the same height. That alone makes it a different fight, and even if Bellew and Toney were carbon copies of one another stylistically, Usyk would've approached a fight with Toney differently. Again, making it a different type of fight. Bellew being ahead on the official cards doesn't mean much. Toney was ahead on the official cards vs Tiberi. It was in the UK, on a matchroom show, being billed as Bellew's retirement fight - win or lose. Usyk is Ukrainian, wasn't half as well known a few years ago, and was expected to move up to heavyweight immediately after. They were on completely different career paths, and Bellew's circumstances are why he was up on the cards, not his work in the ring. Do you really think the score was 5-2 Bellew going into the eighth round? It's not a stretch to imply, or state, Usyk would have issues with Toney's countering skills and defence, but it's ridiculous to use the Bellew fight as the reason why. Furthermore, that's both one of Usyk's worst opponents at world level, and one of his worst performances. It's literally like nitpicking Toney from the Peter fights or something. You seem to be confusing the terms beat and out-work. Jirov out-worked Toney, he just didn't beat him. This is simple stuff. It's not even semantics, it's just basic English. Marco Huck is far from a bum. While ugly on the eye, awkward with pretty stiff upper-body movement, Huck was extremely effective in an ugly sort of way. He accomplished a helluva lot, and furthermore, that was not a competitive fight. Usyk thrashed the living **** out of Huck and blitzed him from start to finish. Nobody is giving those two more credit than Toney. They're picking Toney to lose to Usyk, just like they did. Furthermore, it's all about styles. Toney is at a horrible style match-up vs Usyk, as shown when he struggled with Reggie and Nunn. Because I can watch CW Toney, and Usyk at his best, and use my eyes to discern who's quicker? Y'know if you make someone add 30lbs of fat to their frame over twleve years, they get slower, right? I didn't. I said, and I quote, "mobile southpaws". These being Reggie Johnson and Nunn. Toney clearly lost more rounds than he won vs these two. His power was got him these wins, and his power is not nearly enough to take out Usyk.
It is an interesting debate but you seem to be overselling. The fact what a lesser in shape Toney did some 30 pounds and 13 years south against Tiberi has very little bearing on the subject matter. Marco Huck was clearly an overachiever. A WBO champ who fought exclusively in protected Germany. He was technically and skillwise very limited. He won fights due to his physical strength and will. And he was perfectly managed. Toney would have beaten his ass badly. I do see similarities between the way Bellew style and Toney style. I am sorry but I do not think using the Bellew fight as a basis is ridiculous. Your eyes test. That is subjective. Toney had fast hands at the higher weights.
I don't see how you could possibly come to the conclusion I think it does. I literally just used it an example of a bad decision. Being an overachiever isn't a bad thing. What matters is Huck won against good opposition and stayed at the top for a long time. What he lacked in finesse, he made up for with toughness, strength and conditioning. Toney would've beaten Huck, and would've looked brilliantly in doing so, this is obvious. The point is Huck was far from a bum, and for the record, I'd back him to beat Jirov. For what specific reasons? "ducking, sliding, countering with the right hand, tyring to sucker him in when on the ropes etc" is not specific. Especially when some of those points dong partain to either of them.
Not trouble per say, but he was falling into a stupidly obvious trap of Bellew walking him into his right. Toney would have a field day if Bellew had success.
I disagree completely and so does Bellow. Read some of the quotes from Bellow about that fight. He knew he was ****ed and couldn't do anything with Uysk. Usyk, Bellew said, is, “Literally watching you for the first three rounds, every reaction and move you make, it everything he does, he absorbs it like a computer, and then he flips it around, and he makes you look at yourself, and all this time you're thinking throughout the bout.”
James Toney thinks all the time.Maybe really that is what happened and Usyk did figure out Bellew after 8 rounds.Usyk would have a much tougher time figuring out the more skilled and soohisticatedToney.That is pretty much a reality and I do not care if he has beaten a much large bodybuilder at heavyweight.
Toney had that great walk-down ability (McCallum I late, Littles, Jirov). He gets to him. He’s just better, greater, a different kettle of fish.
James Toney knows how to fight. Usyk can school Wilder and bodybuilders ok. No way he schools a real fighter like Toney no way. Well that is going over board That is a valid point I guess. skill wise Toney is on a different level than the bodybuilder and the inexperienced Bellew.
No point in discussing boxing any further with you. If you can't se the quality in the fighters Uysk has beaten at Cruiserweight and just see Joshua as a bodybuilder then I am done talking boxing with you. It's simply pointless.
They are quality wins no question.The point was rather that Usyk never fought an opponent as skilled as Toney. but there may be no sense in continuing this debate anyway
I know this, but watch it again and watch Tony walk him onto the most obvious counters. Usyk had his head elsewhere.