Vastly Overrated ...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by he grant, Jun 28, 2011.


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  1. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Foreman emotional weak? I wonder what that would make Tyson and Liston then.
     
    PetethePrince, Jun 29, 2011
    PetethePrince, Jun 29, 2011
    #46
  2. kopejh

    kopejh Guest

    what's so overrated about EMM? he rarely gets any discussion time here. some of his fights are among the best beat downs I've seen at LHW
     
    kopejh, Jun 29, 2011
    kopejh, Jun 29, 2011
    #47
  3. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I disagree with all three points.

    George Foreman was probably the heavyweight who possessed the most raw power and sheer brute strength out of the lot of them. He was pushing a tough man like Joe Frazier around like a rag doll. Muhammad Ali once said that Foreman was the most powerful opponent that he'd ever faced.

    Max Baer was also a very hard hitter. His main problem was his lack of dedication. He could have been at the top longer,otherwise.

    Jimmy Young was a very skilled and crafty fighter. He would never have beaten a prime Ali or any of the elite of the all time greats,but he would have been champion had he come along in an era with less depth.
     
    Stevie G, Jun 30, 2011
    Stevie G, Jun 30, 2011
    #48
  4. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I do agree with you on the Foreman-Ali bout and that George was not at his best in it or against Young. Also your insite on George's decline after Ali was spot on. For the Young bout Gil Clancey tried to shorten George's hooks by bringing his feet closer together but instead it just messed up his natural balance. His jab no longer had his body weight behind it and when he tried to let loose it looked like he would fall over. Not even close to his best.[/quo
     
    Stevie G, Jun 30, 2011
    Stevie G, Jun 30, 2011
    #49
  5. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Fair enough but I did not say I did not appreciate any of these fighters, I just said they were overrated.

    Foreman did not know how to fight more than one style at that point in his career. If extended he was amateurishly wild and ran out of gas fast. He would have been defeated my many great and not even great fighters that had the style to make it past four rounds with him.

    Baer was a very hard hitter. However he was not in the class of Shavers, Liston, Foreman, Lyle, Lewis, Louis, Wlad, Tyson, Marciano, Bonecrusher Smith, Frank Bruno, Mike Weaver off the top of my head ...

    Young was Young ... a good heavyweight with a tricky style, a spoiler who excelled against some styles and was exposed as average against others ..
     
    he grant, Jun 30, 2011
    he grant, Jun 30, 2011
    #50
  6. vironaprile8

    vironaprile8 Quickslip_user Full Member

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    19 loses is awful!
     
    vironaprile8, Jun 30, 2011
    vironaprile8, Jun 30, 2011
    #51
  7. Swarmer

    Swarmer Patrick Full Member

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    Oscar Bonavena and George Chuvalo. Nothing better than an Arturo Godoy or Paulino Uzcudun or Ibeabuchi type as far as overall ability goes.
     
    Swarmer, Jun 30, 2011
    Swarmer, Jun 30, 2011
    #52
  8. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But he "clubbed'' around for years before finding his very narrow window of prime say, summer 75 thru the Norton fight. It's hard to judge Jimmy because I can't think of another fighter who after years of mediocrity, suddenly hit the world stage giving everyone they threw at him fits!
     
    jowcol, Jun 30, 2011
    jowcol, Jun 30, 2011
    #53
  9. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hi he :D

    I guess we'll have to agree to disagree if you think the 75-77 Foreman was as mentally "demon-free" sharp and focused as he was pre-Ali.

    This thread is titled "vastly overrated'' not "who shouldn't be considered an all time great?" so your Young comment puzzles me. Could Ossie fight Lyle/Lyle/Ali/Foreman/Norton and have any semblance of a chance in ANY of those fights? The prevailing opinion by most over the years was that Young's spirit was broke after not getting the Norton nod and he was an uninspired fighter giving lackluster efforts from that point on...
     
    jowcol, Jun 30, 2011
    jowcol, Jun 30, 2011
    #54
  10. Foreman Hook

    Foreman Hook ☆☆☆ G$ora ☆☆☆ Full Member

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    :happy:happy:happy:happy:happy Pete you a Boxing-XPERT m8! :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

    Tyson And Liston are SPINELESS BULLYS who never ever won a hard fight where teh person they were fighting was not scared And fighting back warrior style! + Tyson And Liston NEVER came back from any adversity to win or nearly win!! Foreman showed him BIG BALLS VS Ronny "Tate And" Lyle, Holyfeild, Alex Steward, Moorer, Savareze And Briggs. Tyson And Liston NEVER showed BIG BALLS. Foreman was a WARRIOR BULLY with ATG HEART to fight back VS adversity in teh ring. Not a SPINELESS emotionally weak BULLY like Tyson And Liston who only ever won fights when they INTIMIDATED people And teh scared people they were fighting did NOT try to win. Foreman did not give 1 **** about if people were intimidated, cos he had BIG MANLY BALLS full of moxy. :deal


    Foreman Hooooooooooooook!:rasta
     
    Foreman Hook, Jun 30, 2011
    Foreman Hook, Jun 30, 2011
    #55
  11. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    He's way off base about Foreman being "emotionally weak"..the Lyle fight alone dispelled that notion pretty well IMO.
     
    red cobra, Jun 30, 2011
    red cobra, Jun 30, 2011
    #56
  12. steve w

    steve w Active Member Full Member

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    The flashy entertainer and ko exponent extrordainaire, bernard hopkins!
     
    steve w, Jul 1, 2011
    steve w, Jul 1, 2011
    #57
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I think that description can apply to Jersey Joe Walcott or Mike Weaver, to name but two heavyweights.

    I think Young is overrated.
    The Ali fight really shows his level - the most important fight of his career against a disturbingly out-of-shape and aging war-torn champion, and he just eeked a controversial decision "loss" in a very lousy fight.
    That's non-greatness right there. :deal
     
    Unforgiven, Jul 1, 2011
    Unforgiven, Jul 1, 2011
    #58
  14. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    ESB´s beloved hw darlings:
    David Tua
    Ike Ibeabushi
    Cleveland Williams
    Jimmy Young
    Jerry Quarry

    The "would have been champ in another era" crew.
     
    bodhi, Jul 1, 2011
    bodhi, Jul 1, 2011
    #59
  15. kopejh

    kopejh Guest

    he's rated just fine around here. as one of the greatest middleweights of all time:good
     
    kopejh, Jul 1, 2011
    kopejh, Jul 1, 2011
    #60
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