Greetings MMA posters, this is the This content is protected in a series of threads I'll make on this forum, basically ripping off the excellent Classic Forum boxing poster Boxed Ears, who has a series in the Classic called 'Very Good Or Great', where he asks regulars whether they consider some fighters to merit the description 'great' fighters, or whether they are merely 'very good'. MMA Volume 1 was This content is protected , see thread: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...d.php?t=335373 MMA Volume 2 was This content is protected , see thread: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...d.php?t=335558 MMA Volume 3 was This content is protected , see thread: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...d.php?t=335875 MMA Volume 4 was This content is protected , see thread: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...d.php?t=336732 MMA Volume 5 was This content is protected , see thread: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...d.php?t=336748 MMA Volume 6 was This content is protected , see thread: http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336832 The choice this time is Jake Shields. Shields is different from the rest of the fighters selected so far in that he very well may still have some of his greatest achievements still ahead of him (although some could argue so does Vitor Belfort), so for this thread the question is more, if Shields retired tomorrow, has he done enough as yet to be considered a great, or not? Some relevant info about Jake: - Jake has won three championships in his career: the Shooto Middleweight Title, the EliteXC Welterweight crown, and most significantly This content is protected , which he This content is protected and never lost in the cage. He also won a UFC title eliminator fight, as well as This content is protected - Jake has five losses on his record - the points loss to This content is protected for the UFC gold, while earlier in his career he dropped decisions to This content is protected and This content is protected This content is protected . Also, in Shields's 3rd pro fight he was stopped by This content is protected . - The most important factor is of course resume, the guys Jake has beaten. Make your assessment of this list: This content is protected - Strikeforce, 2010 - This content is protected This content is protected - Rumble on the Rock, 2006 - This content is protected This content is protected - Rumble on the Rock, 2006 - This content is protected This content is protected - Strikeforce, 2009 - This content is protected - Shooto, 2002 - This content is protected This content is protected - UFC, 2010 - This content is protected This content is protected - Other factors to consider: His record is This content is protected , with This content is protected , 10 submissions and 3 KOs, against This content is protected and 1 stoppage defeat. Jake was undefeated between 2004 and 2011, going 15-0 in this time, and in addition to the names already mentioned, he beat Paul Daley, Mike Pyle and Robbie Lawler during this run. I look forward to your verdicts and explanations, and hope to continue this series shortly :bbb
He was a few seconds away from being submitted by Mayhem and arguably lost against Kampmann. He is "good." Not even qualifying as "very good" IMO.
I guarantee that there are many fighters you consider "very good" and probably some you consider "great" who cannot match this resume for quality and depth: This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected This content is protected Paul Daley Mike Pyle Robbie Lawler Am I wrong?
Probably the closest to great so far, but Im still going to have to go for very good. When his career ends, with a decent UFC run to shore up that resume, I think he'll be a Great.
Dont like to say if a fighter is very good or great if he havnt retired or had a long career like Tito
You are incapable of answering the question on the basis of what Jake has done up to this point, or imaginging if he retired tomorrow where you would stand on this?
I didnt know about him before around 08-09. But looking at his record now i see he mostly fought tomato cans in unknown orgs :-(
Condit and Okami are both getting their shots at the belt in their respective divisions The point is he beat those cans isnt it?