His record is misleading as he and his brother fought eurobums for quite some time before fighting for a real belt. Lewis fought for the WBC after about 21 fights Sure he can be hit but ATG Lewis is the only one who has really got to him with any frequency, Liston had good reach but too many of the revisionists dont consider that the modern hypothetical opponents might make so bold as to hit back while they are being schooled with the wisdom of the ancients
While Vitali barely scrapes the bottom of my top twenty, on account of his lack of notable wins, head to head is a different matter. I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of fighters I'd favour over him.
Sanders KD is debateable, perhaps it was flash KD, perhaps not, I dont think it was personally. In either case the fact thats the closest hes been to touching canvas speaks volumes. Hide is no bum, he was a decent boxer with good power and extreme speed but just had a hilariously bad chin, but for that he would have gone some places.
I am not. Better refute none of it then, eh? Show me the video of the ref giving him the count. EVEN IF I give you that, so what? One flash knockdown, and if you watch it he was up on steady legs at the count of 1, 2 at the most. He got up to win every round of the rest of the fight, until he won by stoppage. And that is IT for his career, in terms of knockdowns, stoppages or even being visibly hurt. So you laugh at me for saying he barely ever gets hit flush. Then to destroy my statement, you use as your examples ONE round of a fight, then his fight against 6'5", top-3 HW ATG Lennox, and two rounds that Vitali fought with a potentially career-ending shoulder injury. Oh, the shame I feel for advancing such a worthless argument that Vitali is difficult to catch clean. I guess Mike Tyson's defence was bull**** too, huh? Because HW killer Buster Douglas tagged him at will start to finish. You could equally say that Vitali was beating 1 very good fighter (Byrd) and 1 undeniable ATG until he unluckily got injured mid-fight. You want facts? Here is a fact. There is only ONE way shown to defeat Vitali. And that is, stay in there while he wins rounds and hope that he suffers a serious injury before the end of the 12th. That's it. Nobody has come close to beating him on points, nobody has come close to knocking him out. You think Ali, Tyson and co only fought other ATGs??? :rofl Vitali fought in a weak era. But he faced the best challenges available to him and ducked nobody. And he DOMINATED his competition. He didn't find himself miles behind on the cards heading into the last round against light-heavy Billy Conn. He didn't get brutally destroyed over 10 rounds by Buster Douglas. He didn't get knocked down 3 times against Ron Lyle, didn't come within one punch of a KO defeat to Bert Cooper, didn't need his cornerman to bail him out against 185 pound Henry Cooper. ALL of these heavyweight champs I mentioned (Louis, Tyson, Foreman, Holyfield, Ali - big enough names for you?) struggled with, were heavily KDed by, or LOST TO fighters on the level of Arreola, Sanders or worse. Not Vitali. He shuts them out every time. That is where his greatness lies. :hat
Wepner was 6'5" and fought short. He weighed in at 228 against Liston. Zech was 6'5", 226. McMurray was 6'4, 210. So none of them come within 3 inches or 20 pounds of Vitali. He is to those guys what Lewis was to Holyfield. Also one of those clips shows Liston fighting a 5'8", 195 pound opponent in his last fight before Patterson 1. :rofl :hat
Vitali would take Liston apart over 8-9 rounds. No doubt about it. Liston was great for his era, but would have much difficulty landing on Vitali giving the reach and height difference.
When I do my ATG rankings I really do NOT go by the guys resume. I go by who I feel is a better fighter and who would kick the other guys ass in a fight. It may be true that V.K. really has only 'Lewis' on his record who is truly great, but I do rank V.K. in at # 7 on my all-time heavyweight list because I feel he would beat the **** outta roughly 85% of all the former champs dating back to 1887 in a time machine / zone...... V.K. may appear slightly mechanical and robotic, but he fights tall, hits hard, owns a great chin and has good stamina with a damn good jab..... He is lethal.... Very few ex-heavies could kick that guys ass.... In MY OPINION! MR.BILL
I agree, its rare to find the combination of chin and stamina in such a big HW, I dont even like the Klits much but hes tough to beat. I certainly cant see what prime Liston can do other than make things close with the jab. Hes monstrously strong and durable compared to the HWs of Sonny's day.
Obviously i've got Liston, but I think it would be a really ugly, crap fight. Vitali could certainly win a fight like that against Sonny.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Williams' record really weak against top 10 fighters? I'm not saying he couldn't fght by any stretch, but it's a pretty inflated 78-13 when it looks to me he's got more losses against good fighters than wins.
Williams doesn't have a ton of wins over top ten fighters. But his fights with Machen, and Terrel twice show that he was a legitimate, very good fighter. He was very avoided and for good reason, he was high risk and the reward didn't quite add up. It's a shame because there are very few heavyweights that have the power and speed that he had. The only guys he lost to at his best was Terrell (who he also knocked out) and Sonny Liston. Drawing with a boxer like Eddie Machen is very respectable and moves his stock up as well. He would of blasted out Folley who I also have a lot of respect for and would of taken out Patterson as well imo if given a title shot. Patterson-Williams would of been good.