no he fought a lot of the top contenders of his era. he had a pretty good legacy too. after all who is really expected to best a prime Ali. that's not bad losing to him twice. ingemar ducked Liston. so did Cooper. I really think Liston had a good legacy as he beat folley, WilliamsX2, PattersonX2, wepner, harris, and a lot of others.
On a side note, Liston might just have been the best equiped fighter in history to take apart the modern superheavyweights. He had the range to reach them, but was still short enough to duck under their punches, while they could only get away by going backwards. He was a much better techician than any of the superheavyweights. Liston didn't realy have many weakneses as a fighter either technicaly or psychologicaly. His only tangible one is that his handspeed was unexceptional.
I also agree that Liston was the best heavyweight during the late 1950's til the early 1960's. He was the most feared fighter in the world. Boxing experts were comparing him with Louis and Dempsey. When he fought Ali the 1st time, no one gave Ali a chance, or hardly no one. I believe this Sonny Liston, the one that fought from the late 50's to the early 60's would have given almost anyone a hard time. Ali just had the style and speed to offset him. On a side note, several years ago I had to go to Grand Central Station in New York City, where I had to announce and introduce Wladimir Klitschko, Calvin Brock and Laila Ali. It was GREAT! They each gave a 1/2 hour workout and people all over the Station came over to watch as I kept announcing them and the show. They had a section for the fans and another section just for the press. The boxers gave there workout on the press side. Brock was their 1st, followed by Ali. Before I introduced Klitschko I was told by his brother Vitali, that Wladimir would like to have the mic after I introduced him. So he walked over to me and I handed him the mic. He then walked over to the otherside and started talking to all the fans that were there. The fans were taking pictures and he talked for several minutes and they gave him a nice hand. After his workout he talked to the press, as did the other boxers, and then went by the fans again. This time he picked a couple of small kids out and told his handler to take them over to the other side to give them something. I couldn't see what they got, but they were very happy. I thought he and his brother were a real CLASS GUYS, and they both made a Big hit with everyone that was there.
No, it's a Fact, and was shown to be so in the post itself. No, he didn't start fighting top contenders until 1960. This is exactly the kind of inaccurate mythologizing I was referring to. Again, more inaccurate hyperbole used in place of facts. The late '50s "belonged" to Patterson and Johansson, who held the Title and engaged in the biggest and most anticipated fights in the division at that time. Yes he was, he was in the top 10 in '61 and a leading contender by late '62. Williams wasn't even rated in the top 10, let alone top 5 when Liston beat him. And there's nothing to distinguish him from a number of other fighters that made it into the top 5 at or around that same time, either. Was he "avoiding" him when he offered him a guaranteed $125,000 for a fight, which Liston turned down? Liston would have to share as much "blame" for the fight not happening as Johansson does. Using your prior definitions of "era" and "best," I could name: Ali Louis Johnson Marciano Frazier Tyson Lewis ...just off the top of my head. If you consider Walcott as having beaten Louis in their first fight, then that's another name you could add to the list as well.
He fought exactly four top contenders in his career: Folley, Machen, Patterson(in the rematch), and Ali. I personally wouldn't call that "a lot." Harris was rated just outside the top 5 when they fought, and the rest of his opponents were fringe contenders at best. Williams didn't become a notable contender until a year or so after their fights. He wasn't fighting a prime Ali. Ali was still a work in progress then, and was just barely getting by guys like Doug Jones, Billy Daniels, and Henry Cooper. For that reason, Liston actually was expected to best him - twice. It is when you blatantly quit to him both times.
Highlighted in Red contenders Liston beat 1958 Ring Magazine This content is protected , Champion 1. Ingemar Johansson 2. This content is protected 3. This content is protected 4. Henry Cooper 5. Willie Pastrano 6. Archie Moore 7. This content is protected 8. Brian London 9. Sonny Liston 10. This content is protected 1959 Ring Magazine Ingemar Johansson, Champion 1. This content is protected 2. This content is protected 3. Sonny Liston 4. Henry Cooper 5. This content is protected 6. This content is protected 7. This content is protected 8. This content is protected 9. Joe Erskine 10. Alex Miteff Now if that's not what you call cleaning out the best contenders of the late 1950's, then I don't know what is.
Williams was rated in the top 7 for four years in a row 1961-1964. Even though Liston did not defeat him in these exact years, he beat the same version of Williams who fought during these years..therefore he get's the same credit. Unless you want to argue Williams was better in 1961 than he was in 1960 I see the point ur making, and u make it every time. You are extremely specific with who beat who in what particular month of what specific year, and what was that fighter rated on the day they fought them. Well, sometimes it doesn't work like that. Williams was not rated when liston beat him, but we all know liston beat the best version of C williams. within a year C williams would break the rankings and stay there for four years in a row. This clearly counts as a big victory for liston. Billy Hunter and Johnny Summerlin, two other young fighters who would crack the top 10 within a year of liston beating them. Liston deserves major credit for beating these guys while they were coming into their own. A loss to liston did not deter their careers. Bethea, DeJohn, Henry Clark, were all top 10 rated when liston beat them too. Harris wasn't the only other one rated.
Beating them at the time they actually were highlighted on those lists would be, for starters. For example, beating Nino Valdes after he's been beaten by two others and dropped nearly out of the rankings altogether does not have the same significance as beating him when he was actually at the #2 spot and still considered a world class fighter. The argument that a fighter can somehow "retroactively" clean out an era is a new one and seems to have been created expressly to build up Liston's legacy. The truth is if he had had a longer and/or more impressive run at the top level, those kind of arguments would be unnecessary. As I said, even if you want to look at it that way, the claim that Williams was among the 5 very best fighters of that entire era (late '50s to early '60s) is still a questionable one. There were other fighters who came along in that time span that earned comparable rankings and/or scored as good or better wins. I didn't say he was; I just said that what other contenders Liston did beat were mostly fringe contenders, either just inside or just outside the top 10. --------------- BTW, why do you claim I "banned" you from posting on my Youtube vids?
I would pick Sonny to take it,sound boxing skills,has the size and power,VK might be surprised a man that height would have such a reach.
Liston's weakness was bad foot work.Other than that I agree with your post.He beats both Klits ,and emphatically imo.
Enough , Vitali wins by way of mid to late stoppage , just like he did against fighters who were just as good as Liston but never got the opportunity to face a lightheavyweight who holds the lineal and undisputed heavyweight title. Kirk Johnson did something almost as impressing when he stopped Terry McCgroom who was even bigger than Patterson , and yes , P4P I know he was worse , but this is H2H , and as I said he was bigger. So why don't you think Kirk Johnson , Sam Peter , Arreola , Danny Williams , Dicky Ryan , Orlin Norris , Corrie Sanders and then some more could not abuse a lightheavyweight who happened to win the vacant title against an almost completely untested and unproven cruiserweight after even losing a fight out of three in a trilogy ? Liston was not better than Vitali's opposition , that's why he won't do any better then them. He will get intimidated , humiliated , humbled , abused , and then stopped.
:rofl Your hilarity knows no bounds. Of Vitali's opposition, who do you honestly think beats Liston? Oh and don't bother mentioning badly faded 2003 Lewis, that version brutally beat prime Vitali, but he would have been stopped by prime Liston.
I think his footspeed hurt him more than his handspeed, and he could be timed with right hands. But yeah, Liston may very well have the claim to being the most well rounded HW in history.