Vitali Klitschko vs Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bummy Davis, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well to be fair, Ike Ibeabuchi seems to get the benefit of the doubt in some of these match-ups.

    Although I personally feel that, Ike beating David Tua in 1997 and Chris Byrd in 1999 (via KO mind you) is a better than any of Vitaly Klitschko's wins.

    As for the Match up, I tend to think its a pick em fight.
     
  2. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Byrd claimed he was in reality under 200 lbs when he fought Klitschko. I don't know if there's any truth to it but that's what he said himself.

     
  3. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Well, I believe him. He just doesn't look ripped or particularly big. He carries the weight well. His weigh-in weights may be genuine or inflated. I dont know if he weighed in with shoes on, or after a four-course meal and a gallon of milk.
    But even if he was 213, if not's the hard solid settled 213 that Holyfield weigh, let alone the large-framed naturally structured 213 of a Liston or young Foreman.

    I guess some people would just tell Chris Byrd, "Bull****, Chris ! You as big as Sonny Liston !" . But he always seemed like a genuine guy to me, and I've read him saying the same things in other interviews, and it squares with the visual perception.
     
  4. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I think the Sam Peter comparison is fair.

    However, i don't put too much stock in Chris' words. He's playing the "David vs Goliath" line for his entire career - and he's entitled to that, but he keeps coming in at 210+lbs.

    Michael Spinks at heavyweight looked soft and weak. Byrd looks strong. Big arms, defined six pack, etc.

    Here you can see that he really is a big dude:

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    (not the most flattering picture, but it shows his big arms and ripped stomach)

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    Next to the earlier mentioned Holyfield... does he really look smaller?


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    Winning the title. Again, if you showed this to someone who doesn't know Byrd, would he say "well that's fake muscle, he's a natural LHW" ?

    Many tend to degrade his size because:

    • He's fought a shitload of big or even huge opponents. Wladimir Klitschko 2x, Vitali Klitschko, 240lbs Andrew Golota, 270lbs Jameel McCline, 233lbs Tua, 226lbs Povetkin, etc.
    • He's one of the, if not the weakest puncher of the decade. People naturally associate this with a smaller man.

    He claims to be below 200lbs in training camp? I don't buy it. Look at these pictures:
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    Again, you can see he's a big dude and definitely not below 200lbs.


    The way he made 175lbs was definitely not healthy. You could see this in the ring as he got annihilated by a mediocre LHW who wasn't known for his punching power. Or just look at this picture, which says enough:

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  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I agree with Chris ( Pontius ).

    There is a big difference between a guy who is 210 lbs and conditioned, vs a man who just merely makes the weight of 210 lbs. Spinks added weight for the purpose of making the necessary perameters, but I don't think that he was ideally fit at those levels. Byrd was a well honed 210 lbs, and frankly I think this would make him a legitimately solid heavyweight in an earlier era.
     
  6. Son of Gaul

    Son of Gaul Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Taller yes, but stronger:patsch?
     
  7. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Picture comparisons between Sonny Liston and Sam Peter in his last fight (weighed 237 lbs):

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  8. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Nice pictures. Liston is definitely more defined and a better physical specimen (no homo). Peter's build, by comparison, is more that of a strongman (bulkier), while Liston's is that of a boxer: lean, flexible and plenty of stamina. Peter doesn't have to go 15 rounds, though.
     
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    corrected.
     
  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    You guys who are picking Vitali are truly delusional ... the Klitschko's are so overrated on this board it's actually funny.
     
  11. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :good

    The Klitschkos are the best around right now, no doubt about that. Are they in Sonny Liston's league? No way! Size be damned! Those amateur styles of theirs ain't gonna cut it with Sonny in the ring...in my opinion.
     
  12. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The "K" bros. are NOT overrated... They are the BEST heavies out there today..... Both brothers are dominant...... However, yes, I agree the division sucks ass right now, but it'll bounce back sooner or later---I HOPE!

    Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko are the BEST heavyweight hulks to ever laced up the gloves. They are much better then old dudes like "Luis Firpo, Jesse Willard, Primo Carnera, Abe Simon, Buddy Baer, Carmine Vingo & Mike White" for Christ sake....

    I like the "K" bros..... But I think Vitali is the meaner and more scary of the two..... Plus, at age 38 yrs, he still kicks-ass....... WORD!

    MR.BILL
     
  13. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    1. Ali
    2. Holmes
    3. Johnson
    4. Louis
    5. Foreman
    6. Lewis
    7. Vitali Klit
    8. Holy
    9. Tyson
    10. Bowe / Frazier (Tie)
    11. Marciano
    12. Dempsey
    13. Liston
    14. Wlad Klit
    15. Jeffries
    16. Walcott
    17. Charles
    18. Tunney
    19. Baer
    20. Sharkey / Patterson (Tie)

    MR.BILL:deal

    Let the arrows fly high.....:shock::admin

    NOTE:

    Screw the RESUME bullcrap.... I rate these guys based on who I think can and would kick some ass with the elite in a time machine..... For instance, guys like "Johnson, Louis & Vitali Klit" cannot be faulted for defending and stopping a list of "Lesser" opponents simply because they had no real competition for certain lengths of their careers...... NO!! I will NOT crucify there.....
     
  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Liston fast? Not exactly. In face in their primes, Vitali ( who is 38 now and has overcome multiple knee, shoulder and back injuries ) was faster with his feet than Liston was. VK never seems to get any credit for defense, head movement, judgment of distance, or the amount of ground he can quickly cover with his feet.

    Lennox Lewis himself said Vitali was hard to hit. No man has ever won more than two consensus rounds vs. Vitali. He is very hard to out box.

    Liston did fight some larger heavies. Cleavland Williams landed plenty in two short fights. In fast Williams really worked Liston over in one of their fights before his lack of punch resistance, style and chin caught up to him.
     
  15. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Liston had a fairly quick left jab, but so did Foreman..... Liston, like Foreman, was NOT a swift mover.... YES! V.K. is very mobile for a man his size and weight of 250 pounds....... I'm impressed with V.K. and his skills and good speed for his size......

    MR.BILL:deal:thumbsup