Vitali Klitschko vs Sonny Liston

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bummy Davis, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. Woddy

    Woddy Guest

    Easy win for Vitali Klitschko. Liston might be a good tune-up fight just two months before Vitali steps in with a real opponent.
     
  2. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Like Kevin Johnson? :p
     
  3. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Albert "The Dragon" Sosnowski.
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    I'm speaking of all three actually... Ali, like Lewis later, loved to hold and hit. Ali, like Klitschko (esp. Wlad) loved to tie up and clinch, obscenely so. Ali had a few other tricks that the over-awed refs let him get away with. My point is a fighter does not need to be complete to be champion or even great.
     
  5. Haggis McJackass

    Haggis McJackass Semi-neutralist Overseer Full Member

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    Okay, so never being knocked down, never being behind on the cards at any stage of any fight, coming into every fight in tip-top shape, taking every opponent seriously - these things do nothing to improve his head-to-head standing against the unproven Sonny Liston?

    The question is - what exactly has Liston done to show he can beat Vitali?

    You may say that in Vitali's two biggest fights, he quit both times. Once he suffered a potentially career-ending injury during a fight he was dominating, and the other he was keen to fight on with half his face hanging off his skull and a 4-2 lead against Lennox.

    But Liston fares worse in his two biggest fights. He was embarrassed in the first fight with Ali, (when he allegedly tried to cheat by smearing ointment on his gloves to blind Ali) and in the second, he took probably the most notorious dive in boxing history, and quit in the first round while completely uninjured.

    Sonny Liston NEVER fought a guy who weighed in at over 230 pounds. Not even once. Vitali fights at over 250, and there is no fat on him. He is a GIANT compared to anyone Liston has ever faced. Most of Liston's opponents were under 200 pounds.

    Vitali is a different monster than anyone Liston ever faced, and he makes Liston look like a midget as well. I don't say that Liston CAN'T win, but there is nothing at all on his resume that tells me he is EXPECTED to win. On paper, Vitali's case for this matchup appears MUCH stronger.

    :hat
     
  6. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    Liston would work his way in and viscously take Vitali apart on the inside where he is exceedingly vulnerable to stop him late.
    Also Sonny could out jab Vitali on the outside with a superior, faster and longer jab.

    Waiting for Mendoza to tell me about Vitali's better infighting skills and jab...
     
  7. Haggis McJackass

    Haggis McJackass Semi-neutralist Overseer Full Member

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    Apparently not vulnerable enough for anyone he's fought to be able to defeat him, stagger him or even win a few rounds off him.

    And if Vitali doesn't feel like fighting on the inside, then he's fighting on the outside with his awkward style that eats come-forward fighters alive.

    :hat
     
  8. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    Exceedingly vulnerable to a great fighter like Liston, not the opponents defeated by Vitali.
    None of the fighters Vitali has fought could close the distance or fight on the inside like Liston could.
    Also you say he eats come-forward fighters alive, but never has he faced one with real elusive abilities and a reach advantage.
     
  9. Haggis McJackass

    Haggis McJackass Semi-neutralist Overseer Full Member

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    Liston has fought nobody who brings anything close to Vitali's combination of size, skill, speed, power, chin, accuracy, toughness and ring smarts to the fight.

    The size alone is a significant unknown for Liston, who was used to being the bigger man in the ring. Vitali is half a foot taller and 30+ pounds heavier.

    Liston was used to intimidating his opponents. I don't see that working on Vitali. If anything, Vitali would get inside Liston's head.

    Look, I don't say it's IMPOSSIBLE for Liston to win this fight, but ojectively, Vitali is the definate favourite. Liston is probably more competitive than most of Vitali's opponents, but he will likely get ground down and stopped late, just like most everybody else. Liston was no defensive master and he would come to fight, which suits Vitali fine. Sonny will find himself eating three punches for every one that he lands, and he never seemed like the mentally strongest fighter, as shown twice against Ali. When he realizes that Vitali is steadily beating him down, and he lands a couple of shots that Vitali shakes off, he will get discouraged and go into his shell just like the rest.

    :hat
     
  10. Haggis McJackass

    Haggis McJackass Semi-neutralist Overseer Full Member

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    You keep saying that Vitali has never fought anyone like Liston before, why do you ignore the FACT that it is even worse the other way around?

    Look at Liston's competition that he beat. Do you back any of them to beat Vitali, or even take more than a round or two off him? These 200 pound cruiserweights that Liston knocked over?

    If Vitali doesn't want to fight on the inside, then he won't. His style is designed around controlling the distance of the fight. If Liston stays away he gets ground down and stopped like the rest. If he comes inside he gets tied up, leaned on and frustrated. And if he lands a bomb, Vitali will eat it as easily as any fighter who has stepped in the ring, as his chin is first-class.

    :hat
     
  11. Haggis McJackass

    Haggis McJackass Semi-neutralist Overseer Full Member

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    :patsch

    Show me one 5 second stretch of any fight that illustrates Vitali would "crumble". He is one of the physically and mentally toughest fighters to ever step into the ring. Never knocked down, never even badly staggered, but it's a given that Liston will overwhelm him. Because clearly Vitali is not going to pose any more of a challenge than 5'3", 125-pound, china-chinned Floyd Patterson did.

    :hat
     
  12. Blood Green

    Blood Green Guest

    I don't think this is a good match up for Liston. He plodded too much to take Vitali out of his game.
     
  13. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    I am familiar with Liston, and am one of his bigger fans here. But Sonny's best work was on the outside, not on the inside. It may shock you to learn that Liston was cut more often than Vitali was, and was down from Marty Marshall. The battle of the jabs would be interesting. As you punch up, you lose striking range. Liston who was about 6'1" would really have to reach up hit to hit the 6'7 1/2 Vitali, who as I mentioned doesn't;t exactly stand still and plod. In Vital's case his shoulder lines up perfectly with Liston's face and chin. A fighters maximum striking range is a straight line from his shoulder, not on an upward arch.
     
  14. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Wlad has somewhat recently learned to tie up an opponent well since his loss to Brewster and his work with Steward. Vitali hasnt been tested in a similar manner since his loss to Lewis. I dont think he has improved that part of his game, because he hasnt faced anyone worth a **** since.
     
  15. Woddy

    Woddy Guest

    Albert " The Dragon " Sosnowski is an all time great.