Vitali Klitschko's wasted talent

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Then you'll know it covers Vitali's WBC defenses from 2004 to 2012 inclusive then.
     
  2. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    There is any reference, in the text of you which I quoted from you, about this?
    Or where is in the opening of the thread writen anything about his first reign?

    You don't let you escape that easy, as I have caught you by your statement and no excuse will ever changed this.
     
  3. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Are you demented?

    What does Vitali's WBO "reign" have to do with this thread or my first post in this thread?

    If, as you put it, in your initial response to my first post, "About everything wrote is false", could you perhaps elaborate on what else you considered to be false about the post in question, rather than obsessing over an off-topic insignificance?


    As for "escape", it really is that easy. I just close my browser.
     
  4. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    What has your contribution to do with the subject?
    I just responded to your allegations, which were in no relation about the opener. Well you can attempt to divert as hard as you could.

    And I mentioned it already previous, if you read careful, your claim that the era was outrageous weak is not correct. The current is likely worse and the few years with Rahman, Ruiz, Byrd and Brewster/ Lyakowitsch as the world title holder (all promoted by Don King, defending incestuous against Oquendo, McCline and the shadow of Golota) was is rather as well, before the Klitschko brother finally captured these.
    Even Audley Harrison got almost two world title shots, who got long time before exposed by Martin Rogan.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  5. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Apologies - my Cryptanalysis Machine is currently out of service and so I have no idea what you're writing about.

    Shame. It's been fun.

    Good evening.
     
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  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I didnt say they were all ranked during his reigns I said they were all ranked in his era ,and he didn't fight them.
    But since you ask;Ring Ratings
    Oquendo was no7 in2004
    99-2000 Holyfield was no2 Tua, no5 Tyson no6
    2008.Ibragimov was no6,Maskaev no8,Chagaev no3,Dimitrenko no10.
    2009 . Chagaev no4, Boytzov no7, Dimitrenko no9.
    2010.Chagaev no5 Povetkin no3
    2011 .Povetkin no2,Dimitrenko no5,Helenius no6 Chagaev no8,Pulev no 10.
    2012.Povetkin no2,Pulev no4,Helenius no6,Boytzov no7,Chagaev no7.

    NB Byrd was not ranked at the end of 99 he got his ranking,[no10]
    AFTER he beat Vitali

    Bean was not ranked,Donald was not ranked.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
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  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Welcome to the forum as a poster mate.
     
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  8. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes me too!
     
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  9. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well no. Vitali would have real challenges in Wilder, Fury, Joshua and Ruiz (if he is in shape).
     
  10. The Slaps

    The Slaps Win or lose, as long as you get the decision Full Member

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    Sorry McGrain I went off topic on my first post :)
    When you look at his defence resume in black & white it does look pretty poor in quality, but in his defence there wasn't a whole lot of great boxers around in his era either. He was a portion champ and it was up to the big boys to come knocking on his door, I know Valuev ducked him, Byrd and Povetkin at different ends of his reign weren't interested. Wlad was never going to fight him. Holyfield, Tyson, Golota etc were way past their primes. Fury was only on the way up. Not sure if Chagaev or Maskaev ever chased him. Maskaev was sparked out by Peter and Vitali dispatched of him. He was scheduled to fight a past his best but still game Rahman, but went out injured.
    On Danny Williams his first defence, he was just a hype job after beating a very poor Tyson, he wasn't deserved of a title shot. No offence meant but if he wasn't British or American he wouldn't of gotten a title shot off his Tyson win. They werent lining up McBride when he got the win over Tyson.
    Who he should of fought: If I remember right Byrd was apparently avoiding him, but I don't believe that, no way Byrd avoided anybody he was as game as a fighting bantam. And Vitali had no reason to avoid Byrd, boxing politics was more than likely the issue, if at this time that fight was even on the cards. Vitali was still chasing a rematch with Lewis in hope he'd come out of retirement, Williams was more than likely just to pass the time, he then had Rahman lined up and the rest is history. Apart from Byrd who was joint number 1 with Vitali at that time, who else did you have John Ruiz? I never rated him that high of a contender. Toney was passing through, the others were too old. Maybe Golota was still able, but what Golota would show up. Chagaev and Valuev weren't quite at that level yet. Big O like Wlad were losing fights.

    Thanks for the welcome Mcvey and JohnThomas

    How do you copy and paste to quote from a phone?
     
  11. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    At which time frame was a fight against Holyfield or Tyson ever realistic? When it was not at any reigns, than were the Klitschkos a lot too dangerous for them (to fight in non-title bouts). There have to be two sides which agree and I'm sure the Ukrainians would have had.

    Tua had a law suit with his former promoter which result in a lay-off from 2003 to 2005 (like of Mads Larsen). When he came back, he got a gift stoppage against tomatocan Talmadge Griffith 20 seconds before the final bell, after losing almost every round.

    Tschagajew fought his brother and was promoted by Universum Boxpromotion, which had a law-suit with the Klitschkos, after they left it in 2004. Just as went he the WBA line.
    Powetkin was always supposed to fight his brother which he finally did, as he was IBF top challenger about 2 - 3 years (since 2008) and later became WBA regular champion which are not allowed to fight title-holder of different organizations, despite the WBA super champion.

    Ibraghimov fought an unifaction against his brother in February 2008 and then never again. Vitaly Klitschko made his comeback in October 2008 and had retired in January 2005. But he was considered as comeback opponent for Klitschko in autumn 2007, the problem was who was due to inactivity not ranked by the WBO and the comeback got delayed.

    Dimitrenko lost against Chambers and was knocked down there. Just as was he promoted by Universum, so the same reseason as for the "White Tyson" counts here.

    No you are lying again, Byrd was before Ibeabuchi already number 7 and when he faced Klitschko was he number 10. After it was he most likely in the top 5 at the least.

    Bean had a very close fight with Moorer, which was a mandatory defence (the decision could have been either way, one judge had it even) and also with Holyfield did he went 12 rounds one year later, when he was again IBF top challenger.Beside that had he won all his over 40 profi-fights.
    Donald had just an elimination with Johnson to face Ruiz. He was clearly top 15 and only received a controversial decision vs. Walujew 3 years later (many had him winning it, he performed much better than Holyfield). He also dominated Holyfield to a shootout victory, around that time.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  12. blackfella96

    blackfella96 Member Full Member

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    He could've got a few more names on his resume in the late 90's, maybe if he didn't start of kickboxing and went straight into pro boxing around 21-22, he'd have some opportunity to fight some of the best of the 90's.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    1999
    Holyfield no2
    Tyson no6
    Vitali no7

    2002
    Holyfield no4
    Vitali no7
    Tyson no 9

    2003
    Vitali no1
    Tua no6
    Oquendo no9
    Tyson no 10

    You keep asking for rankings that prove my point,and I keep supplying them ,then you ignore them and go off in another direction!lol Neither Bean nor Donald were ever top ten ranked, its just another fact that you will not recognize!
     
  14. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    He was at place 4 (possible 3) after the Hide demolishion (behind Lewis, Holyfield and Grant), not 7. Where was Holyfield in the WBO ranking to be allowed to defend his title against whom? Did he or Tyson at that point consider to fight for this? Or was he rather bussy with unifications against Lewis? Tyson started his comeback in 1999 after 19 suspension and was just on the way to rebuild on thr rankings and confidence, but was not in the place for a world title bout in that year, when he fought Botha and Norris and strugled with these.

    In 2002 fought Tyson against Lewis, so he waw not available.
    Holyfield was in his fourties and fought Byrd for the vacant IBF title, so also not available. But he went on to lose three times in row, including vs. Donald who fought Klitschko in 2002.

    Tua was in 2003, after the draw with Rahman, as I repeatedly pointed before and you like to constantly ignore, not allowed to box for two years. As he had legal stuff about his contract, thefore had he to refuse from a rematch against Ruiz for the WBA title.

    What is the point in facing a hopeless oponent in "Big O", when everybody know he wouldn't last more than two rounds?

    Where was Powetkin in the WBC ranking, to be considered as challenger, in 2009 - 2013?

    So all of your potential named opponents were utopian or just not interesting. It just shows you have absolute no knowlegde about that time in boxing.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've given you the independent Ring rankings not those of Mickey Mouse alphabet organizations,and they confirm those I named were top ten ranked when Vitali was . As Man Machine stated . Its not my fault you cannot accept the truth or ever be wrong its just who you are.
    FYI
    Oquendo is currently no 15 in the WBA rankings!
    Oquendo is 46 years old and has not fought for five and a half years!

    Hammer is number6

    WBO
    Fa number 6
    Romanov number8
    IBF
    Kabayel number 4
    Washington number 9
    If you think these rankings are more realistically objective and credible than those of the Ring you are even dumber than I thought you were and that would be a miracle!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020