Was Ali still great in Manilla?

slash · Aug 6, 2026

Saintpat said: ↑

One of those rare fights that goes beyond conditioning into the realm of literally endurance — what is a man able and willing to endure to prevail.

My viewpoint is the effect of the punches in the second half or so of the fight were magnified because the gloves became waterlogged from sweat. It can only happen in conditions where great heat and humidity are combined, which was the case in Manilla. In dry desert heat like Las Vegas, a man is sapped the sweat evaporates. You can see the gloves in this fight begin to take on weight from that and kind of hear it in the noise from the landed punches.

This was probably the most extreme weather conditions of any fight since John L and Jake Kilrain battled for 75 rounds (2+ hours) in the summer heat of Mississippi.

Neither Ali nor Frazier would yield to the other or the conditions. “It was the closest thing to death,” Ali would say.

Yes, these men were extraordinary on this day. Warriors in ways only warriors truly understand.

Someone once said something like — sometimes boxing is about skill and technique; sometimes it’s about physical ability and power that separates two men; sometimes, boxing is caveman **** … who wants it more, who will dig deeper. These men dug as deeply as any two men ever have, imo.

There is, indeed, greatness in that.

“No one will ever forget what you did here today,” Eddie Futch told a blinded Frazier when he stopped it after 14 rounds.

None of us should ever forget what either did on that day.
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double like

HOUDINI · Aug 10, 2026

The ref of Ali Frazier 3 would say later that he not allowing Ali to hold Frazier was both good and bad for Joe. Frazier was more free to punch…..but so was Ali and Ali was punching back.

Stevie G · Aug 10, 2026

Cornucopia said: ↑

Most everyone knows the basics of the story. Here is a poetical elegy of an article about it.
https://www.sothebys.com/en/articles/muhammad-ali-thrilla-in-manila-everlast-boxing-shorts

An excellent poster disagreed that Ali was still great here.
Although he felt the fight itself was great.
Certainly he & Frazier were declined, but from what a high peak.

They set a record for most HW punches landed, even absent the 15th round, & they were overwhelmingly hard shots.
But the allegedly 120 degree hear under the lights would sap anyone's speed & strength, especially HWs fighting with such murderous intent & tremendous punch volume.
I feel for these guys to be great then, they would have to have been likely to beat all but a few past & present fighters on that night.
It is an open question whether it is fair to expand the # of much later SHW sized ATGs.

I do not think they just fought at capacity & pushed each other to the limits.
Fighting that night, especially under those conditions, who would have likely beat either one of them, except maybe Foremen, at least so stylistically favored over Frazier?

But if you think they *just* were so well-matched & motivated for maybe the best HW fight ever, let us know what the evidence is.

You might think while Frazier was not quite great then, but he was so well-suited to give Ali hell that he was a great test of Ali's greatness.
Frazier had reason to hate Ali, given the very public, recreational Cruelty-with overtones of racism-that tormented Joe & his kids.

There are many ways to be great, & many ways to fall short.
Even without the same mobility, an ATG might have enough other virties & enough compensentory virtues to still be Great. To Rise to the Occasion.
Like a cagey pitcher or other savvy,

Did these guys have enough talent left that the incentive & context allowed not just an Epic Pugilist War, but Ali was still, on that night, under those conditions, & against other theoretical opponents, still great?
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Yes,Muhammad was still great on that night but it was his last great performance.

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Was Ali still great in Manilla?

Was Ali still an ATG on October 1st, 1975, or was it a tremendous thrilla due to styles, ferocity, b

No, the fight was incredible, but the speed, reflexes & overall capacity was champ, not ATG level.

Yes, the Old Master retained enough ability (including to adapt) that esp. in that heat: ATG.

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