I've not read the book but that was my immediate thought. But perhaps it wasn't mentioned because it was Ring rankings only and therefore not offiicial (NBA, etc)? Still, Henry Cooper was the official #1 contender for a short while and no one ever mentions that. :yep
Physical copy from BI. The article, in light of Robinson's death, is entitled "Is Charley Burley now the greatest living fighter?". There's probably nothing enlightening that most fans haven't heard before ("uncrowned champ", "Sugar Ray avoided me" etc). But I liked Charley's comment about the latter in which he said if the roles had been reversed, he would definitely have avoided Robinson.
Yep, the risk/reward equation for Robinson was always going to be too low. I'd be interested to see how Charles handled Burley so easily, in relation to how Robinson would compare to a 160 Ezz.
How so? Do you dispute that he was offered a career's best payday to face Robinson? That's the story. That's hardly high risk/low reward. I didn't think Burley was ever ranked #1, I thought his highest ranking was #2, but if Hcup says he was, he was.
To face Burley, you mean? Obviously you mean 'career best' at that point in time, which was what '42? Robinson's big paydays (Turpin, Graziano, LaMotta, Basilio multiple fights) would massively obliterate the 'meagre' payday against Burley. How come this alledged career best payday was never discussed in the Rosenfeld Bio, he seemed well sourced. I was more referring to the ensuing snooze-fest Burley would cause, with his negative style, thus making it a 'bad for business' fight for Robinson. Also worth considering the weight difference, Robinson was what ca. 140 at that time? Do you believe Burley would beat Robinson?
Id have to see a breakdown of Robinson's purses prior to the proposed Burley fight and immediately after and get a good solid source on what he was offered to fight Burley. In 1942 Burley ended up having to go up north just to get fights. He had fought some good names but I doubt he was ever paid a whole lot of money or had ever really established a rabid fan base. What would the motivation be to offer Robinson, who was already a star, a career high payday to face Burley? It doesnt really add up.
Exactly. According to Rosenfeld, Burley's average purse was what ca. $1-2k (not withstanding ca. 50% management, trainer, expenses; deductions). I dont think Burley ever headlined a main event which had more than 10,000 in attendance, Zivic maybe. Lets be honest though Zivic would obviously be the draw in those 3 matches. It would be interesting to guage what attendances Burley brought in as a main eventer, even if you focus on the perceived bigger fights.
It's all preference I guess, I have Robinson's bio and a good few mountains of books on Ali and I've never personally enjoyed any of those more than that Burley book. I thought it was as you say, very well sourced, tremendously in fact, considering the topic at the time of writing would have not been the easiest to research in such depth. The book is not just about Burley but an unbiased indication of and a read on the era in general, I loved it, absoultely loved it. Almost every boxing book you ever read which is a bio or is based on a fighter is so biased that I simply take it with a pinch of salt, as if it is a ****ing rumour I'm hearing. Rosenfeld in that book is so unbiased, he even towards the end of the book lays down his analysis of Burley vs Robinson and even though he more or less admits he is rooting for Burley and does pick him, he lays down all the reasons why one may pick Robinson. A great read in my opinion. Possibly my favourite book. I remember reading Hands of Stone and just thinking this is like listening to a kid who is a Duran fan telling folk lore-esque stories. It had a few memorable quotes but I thought it was a pretty average book.
Oh ok thanks, I never knew which article that quote actually came from. I wish the rest of the interview at the end of this vid was available, I would love to watch that [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BOHIxGiTzA[/ame]
What did he get in these fights? It was in the Otty bio, which also seems well sourced. The negative style is in large part a myth. It wasn't in evidence when he was bouncing McQuillan off the canvas like a yo-yo in his one NY outing, and it wasn't the case when he fought "as a human riviting gun" firing "punches from all angles" at an outclassed Moore. It isn't even that apparent in Burley's one filmed outing against Smith. He fights to keep it slow (natural enough for a natural LMW fighting a LHW known for his punching power). He fought to keep it slow on many occasions and was very economical, but this "snoozefest, boring" thing, I don't get it. The press was very interested in a potential fight. In 1945, which I think was the year of the last offer (it's hard to keep them straight and it's been a while since I took a documented interest) Robinson was weighing in over the WW limit more often than not. It seems Gainford accepted this offer by the way, Robinson himself is supposed to have refused it. That was a 17k offer. A later 25k offer was made, and also accepted, but according to Burley: "Jake Mintz came to me and said I might be able to get the contract for three fights with Robinson, but he told me part of the deal was I would have to go down in the first one. I didn't give him an answer." Klompton, Robinson fought as late as 1949 for less than ten grand. His stipulated price for Burley was 50k, more than twice his greatest payday pre 1945, I believe. I think he'd have a very good chance. I think he was the only fighter other than KG to be around at Robinson's time in Robinson's class. And I think that Burley was better than KG.
You take what you know about a fighter based upon available footage, results, you make a judgement about each man's ability and make your call.
He was bigger, faster, more powerful, stronger, had punch resistance that was just as good, had a longer reach. Basically he is very obviously KG's physical superior and nobody is seriously going to claim that KG was a flat out better boxer or a better general. I also think that whilst KG's top to bottom resume is arguably as good, Burley's signature wins are better - that is, he beat better fighters.