Was Johnson Close to Defeat in the Flynn Rematch ...

Just for you I repost it.

Trainer Tom Flanagan said," Flynn should have been dsq'd in the 6th rd."
"There was nothing to the battle but Johnson.In my mind at all times, he had it well in hand and the danger line never appeared on the horizon as far as I am concerned."I heard a lot about the way in which Johnson tired towards the close of the battle, but I am confident its a mistake.Johnson was in superb condition and could have gone the whole 45 rounds without flying the distress signals as some stated".
The Promoter of the fight Jack Curley who had bet on Flynn said," Flynn was beaten fair and square". The referee Ed Smith said."Flynn disgraced everyone and fought a foul battle ,when he saw he was outclassed,he fought as foul as any man could,bringing down the police's wrath.Flynn deliberately tried to lose the contest on a foul when it was plain to him as it was to the spectators that he was a beaten man".He further said Johnson was not holding as much as smoothing Flynn at all stages.He placed his thumbs in Flynn's elbows and simply held the fireman's arms helpless completely blocked.It was not a foul move because Flynn's arms were free in a way and he was able to tap Johnson's stomach and short ribs with both hands but in a way that did not seem to do much damage". "Ultimately,maddened by the fact that he was being checkmated and outguessed at every stage of the contest,Flynn resorted to the most barefaced system of fouling"Smith said he was about to disqualify Flynn when the police entered the ring." " It was the champions battle from the first tap of the gong.He ripped Flynn with a straight left and murdered him with his old right uppercut".

The Omaha World Herald said, "Flynn was battered and beaten at all stages,and evidently attempted to force the referee to give Johnson the contest on a foul".The New York American said," Flynn was bested and on his way out but for Johnson's carrying him". "Ringside opinion was that Flynn would have been nearly cleaned in a short time .On three occasions during the fight Johnson landed from five to seven punches on Flynn's flattened nose is as many seconds.Flynn was groggy and Johnson could have used his famous punch to the jaw with either hand,and put Flynn to sleep".The Chicago Day Book "Jack Johnson fairly played with Jim Flynn". The Chicago Defender"Flynn was a battered and hopeless white hope.He was bathed in blood from head to toe ,with a knockout his inevitable finish."
The FreeMan's TS Andrews" Flynn put up a surprisingly poor fight Flynn made his best showing in the 3rd and 6th rds.However up to the end it was Johnson's battle on points clearly,for he gave the fireman a terrifc beating ,punishing him badly with right uppercuts and left jabs to the face. Some said Johnson seemed determined to drag out the rounds,maybe in order to give the picture people a chance Flynn was at his mercy all along." The FreeMan's Billy Lewis,"Johnson was more secure in his title than ever,for his victory served as a set back for white hopes.Flynn fought like a boy in the hands of his school master".More from TS Andrews of the Free Man,"how anyone who witnessed the battle could figure where Jim Flynn had an even show or for that matter any kind of show against the colored Master is hard to understand".Johnson bet $3,500 the fight would not go into the 11th rd. Andrews again," Flynn started out rough for he butted Johnson in the stomach in the first round and offered no apology for his action . One thing must be said in favour of the colored man,he fought fair thoughout and never took advantage of the white man".
That enough primary sources for you!
Ketchel was going all out in the Johnson fight,whereas anyone with half a brain can see that Johnson is carrying him.He picked him up and set him back on his feet twice!

BTW it's SENYA.

Last edited: Tuesday at 8:54 AM
mcvey, Sep 19, 2016 Edit Delete Report
#108 + Quote Reply

I'm not contradicting Senya ,I'm correcting you Klan Man.

 

Who is Trainer Tom Flannigan, and was he with the Johnson camp?

Who was the reporter at The Omaha World-Herald? A name please to prove its primary. Johnson complained to the ref, and why didn't he ended did if being fouled? Maybe he was conserving energy?

These marathons fights can change as soon as one person gets tired. 30+ rounds to go here, and as mentioned Johnson as did not do well in longer fights vs. game men in Hart or Willard. Whether Johnson was winning after a few rounds is not in debate.

I'll take Senya's research over yours here any day of the year. Maybe I should buy Adam's book even if he a little uneven, there plenty of stuff you don't want to be repeated here. I tend to doubt Adam quoted any of the ring sources Senya's mention, but I coudl be wrong there.

PS: How much money did you donate this year to political organisations that abuse human rights, and in some cases cause riots and social unrest with voilence?

 

All the primary sourced quotes were from Adam's book you clown!lol
Johnson didn't do well in marathon fights? You don't think going 26 rds at 37 in tropical humidity with a giant and being in front after 20 rds is doing well? Going 20rds to win at 36 and being out of shape to boot is doing badly? How about the other fights he went 20rds to win in.How many times did Flynn go 20rds? Try NEVER!

I didn't donate anything to VOILENCE lol. I would happily donate to any trigger happy US cop whose getting tired of shooting blacks and wanted to take you out though!

 

Yes, you donated to the African national congress. A very corrupt organization who abuses human rights. Look it up dummy, perhaps you were unaware.

I asked who was trainer Tom Flannigan with and who at Omaha World was at the fight. NO REPLY. I hear Adam's book has Johnson listed with a 77" reach. Not even you're buying that one...

 

I was a member of the ANC when Nelson Mandela was its leader and I'm very proud of it, he was fighting to abolish apartheid and it is through his efforts it has now disappeared in South Africa. I know you would prefer to see rest rooms, lunch counters , water- fountains and swimming pools back to the old days. as well as back of the bus for coloreds,thankfully racist c*nts like you are gradually dying out. If you want to know who Tom Flanagan was look him up.BTW How do you account for the referees opinion? You do know he was a journalist don't you?

 

I'd like to know where that quote from Omaha World-Herald appeared, which issue of that newspaper? The report I have is from the evening edition, by sporting editor Sandy Griswold (who was present at ringside and mentioned Bill Naughton, Otto Floto, Tom Andrews, Claude Johnson, John Day being there as well), and I haven't found that quote in his report. They also had the As sociated Press report, but it didn't contain that quote either. Maybe Adam himself can clear that up.

 

Otto Floto was writing for the Denver Post when did his quote appear, he wrote his copy the next day ?

"A couple of days after the fight the Omaha World Herald said that Flynn was battered and beaten at all stages,and evidently attempted to force the referee to give Johnson the contest on a foul" Adam Pollack page 641 Jack Johnson The Reign.
"The consensus of opinion was that it would be many years before a heavyweight was developed capable of wresting the title from Johnson Flynn made a foul and hopeless fight,as early as the third round it was evident he had no chance"Same page, same book.
"Johnson refused to take the fight seriously,and good naturedly joshing and joking with the crowd and Flynn Johnson displayed a cleverness and ease in blocking and getting away that made Flynn look like the veriest tyro" .
The New York American stated that Johnson carried Flynn. If you want more detail Senya ,I suggest you take it up with Adam.

 

Oh, I don't have the World-Herald of two days later, my subscription to the site ended and I don't have money to renew The one I quoted was from next-day Evening World-Herald.
Yes, Otto Floto's report was published next day in Denver Post, also a reprint of Bill Naughton's and Tom Flanagan's (labeled as "Jack Johnson's chief adviser") reports being on the same page. There's even a photo of Floto telling the progress of the fight to operator Lewis R. Mowry, who telegraphed it direct to Denver Post and Kansas City Post (Floto was sporting editor of both newspapers), and another photo of Bill Naughton and Sandy Griswold telling their reports to operator Bernard F. Fitzsimmons.

 

Adam hasn't participated in this thread yet, has he? I'd also like to ask him why he listed Johnson with a 77" reach when 73.5 to 74" is easily the most common listing.

Keep posting Senya, some of us are learning new information. i

 

Yeah, I dont know what Im looking while Im arguing with some dip**** who thinks Flynn was somehow on the verge of winning this fight... Sorry but Im not going to let a pathetic twat like you interjecting himself here divert my attention away from the main point of this thread which was the absolutely ridiculous notion put forward by someone who fancies himself a historian that Flynn was somehow in this fight at any point in time. And now that same dumbass "historian" wants to argue that Johnson somehow didnt win the fight... And I dont know what Im looking at...

Kingfisher: Im biased because because of my viewing of Carpentier-Siki?? Do tell, its not like its some intricate masterpiece thats difficult to discern. It was exactly what and how I described as was the fallout. I backed that up with quotes from the principles themselves, their handlers, and the trial that took place afterwards. If you dont like it dont shoot the messenger. People dont like that I think Carpentier was overrated. I say tough **** to them. My opinion is based on actually having seen more of the man than probably anybody alive today. Thats not hyperbole it just is what it is.

If some dont like that fact or are jealous of it, **** EM. I couldnt care less. You think it hurts me that people go on youtube? It doesnt. Specifically because what I have ISNT on youtube. So you can pretend you can watch what I have on youtube but you cant. Period. Morons like Mendoza and Grant can pretend they know what I have but they dont. They have no idea what I have in position either in relation to film or beyond. Simple as that. People like Grant, Mendoza, Dempsey1234, etc want to come on here and act like these armchair experts, particularly in regard to me, and they have no ****ing clue. Period. I sit back and laugh at it. Instead of these clowns talking in generalities about my collection and professing to know so much about it why not speak in specifics? Ive challenged them several times. Crickets. You jokers think you know so much about my collection: What do you think is the rarest film in it that nobody but you, with all of this inside information, would know? Simple question. You guys act like my list is out there and easily found and that you have seen it. Fine, what are the surprises that I havent already mentioned here or on some other forum? Because I can tell you there are plenty of them but you ****ing idiots dont know them. So lets put it to the test. Go ahead, spill it. Give me some specifics on what youve seen. I'll be waiting here this time next year for your answer or expect you to come back and once again try to divert the discussion away from your ineptitude with some personal slant, duck, or change of topic. I dont need to do that here because we know Im right. Jack Johnson kicked the **** out of Flynn in 1912, its captured on film for all to see, and nothing you say can change that fact.

 

K, what do you plan to do with your collection?
Any monetization plans, or long terms ideas that will allow people to see the great footage, while you get something in return for your efforts?

C'mon man! You're holding a steak above some starving dogs, and it's no fair!

 

What a shocker. Nothing. So now that weve established you dont know **** about my collection I'm still waiting for your own personal round by round explaining how Johnson was on the verge of losing and ultimately failed to defeat Flynn... Let me guess, you don't want to get into specifics about that either. I kinda figured. Careful, you are rapidly veering into the same credibility sphere as Mendoza and Dempsey1234, ZERO.

 

https://media.giphy.com/media/X3KmDGlw107vi/200.gif
http://gifs.joelglovier.com/crying/raining.gif