Was Mike Tyson good or great?

Yeah, it's sad. Know what else is sad? To be an elderly woman towards the end of life and have a piece of human garbage knock you out and rob you in your elevator. Great memories to die with. Or, be a **** victim of Tyson. He is garbage. No more. No good to himself or society. The pigeons are coming home to roost. NOBODY can say he doesn't deserve it.

 

Spot on post. He,d have faired slightly better than he did with cus around but I still think he,d have went off the rails like he did eventually. As you say his style required 100 percent intensity etc. I think the reality was and still is he was just a bit too small...to realistically reign for say fifteen years. With 100 percent intensity i think he could have...but no one could keep that up for that amount of time. Tyson had to work too hard to stay there.

With height/reach disadvantages he needed to work harder than his opponent. That was fine when he was young and 100 percent motivated. But it was all about if he could keep that motivation up with the intense training. In the end he couldn't but people still rate him as if how his career went is always how it would have. But the reality of it was Tyson wasn,t just cutting corners...he basically wasn't living or training anywhere like a professional athlete should have been. We did end up seeing the worst of Tyson. I think with cus alive...we would have seen a middle ground...but not like how he first burst onto the scene. For me anyway he,d have beat any version of holyfield and lewis...at his best. Its just that being at his very best for years...was always gonna be unrealistic for anyone let alone a guy with as many problems as Tyson had.

Not sure anyone would have got much more from Tyson. Cus had a very very good system at getting success being the smaller fighters. He knew the game. Not sure what more anyone could have brought to Tyson that could have improved him. Without just ramping up his intensity...he was up against it fighting guys at six foot four etc.

 

Precisely. Although I don't think he could have actually got any better than he was,Tyson could have maintained that peak for a bit longer had he been more self disciplined.

 

Spot on post mate. Agree with all that. I think head to head he,d be a nitemare for most at his very best even with his disadvantages but keeping it up over years is where the problems start.

 

Thanks Sangria, its nice to have a few allies that will question Tyson detractors. Its not an easy job defending Tyson as his latter career was by and large, negative. I always been a fan but try to be more objective these days, I do feel that he is a fair few notches behind some other all timers because there simply is lacking proof he would be able to come back from serious adversity, we can only guess, those guys have more proof in the bank.

I often point to the Ruddock fight to shut people up about Mike folding when hit back but thats not quite enough to proof he could be on the rough end of a few all time greats and come out on top. but he fact is Tyson had a very dominant run at his best and some ignore the fact that he made it look easy, rather than realise some of those guys in the 80s were decent.

The Tucker comparison with Lewis is interesting and my view is Tyson's win was more impressive because he wasn't really troubled by a fresher version of Tucker. whereas as old Tucker appeared to have Lewis in trouble, around the 7th was it? When Lennox was questioned about it he said he had a "cramp" if I recall, more like a smash to the face that had in buzzed! anyway the detractors use the hand thing but I dotn think it would have made much difference personally, if Tucker opened up more, he would have got caught more.

 

The Tucker and Smith wins are very under rated, Tucker was undefeated with excellent skills, certainly tall/strong, had a chin and was a fluid big man, mentally probably not top notch but nevertheless a very formidable opponent........and Tyson pretty much white washed him....there goes the theory that Tyson could not deal with tall jabbers.....

Smith was immensely strong and could really crack and again tall and big..........fought a negative fight and got pretty much white washed too...........Tyson's feints, speed of hand/foot, in and out movement , jab and punch variety were out standing.

Prime for prime, at his absolute best, head to head he is probably the most dangerous fighter in the Heavyweight history.............

 

Look at all the Tyson haters liking this post. This wasn't a Tyson hate thread...until you popped up. All of a sudden the hate posts start to slowly creep in until you finally snap when I bring the truth to the table. Correcting your biased opinions with factual evidence is now being called childish.

Like I said before, posting on forums leads to bickering and arguing because everyone needs their egos pumped. The 5%-10% difference between us is the hate...I don't post on forums to hate on fighters like you do.

Just admit it already...

 

I don't think it's brain damage. You can see from his eyes that the meds are strong. I had back surgery in 2011 for a lumbar tear and it's still bothersome. But I've never gotten as doped up as Tyson seems lately. Still, there's a reason USA has a stronghold on poppy fields in Afghanistan. Doesn't matter who you are, opiates are addicting to even the strongest willed person. And the people in control know it...

 

I appreciate these comments Unforgiven. I'll admit your arguments are difficult to get around as you come from a more reasonable angle than a typical hater, haters are fairly easy to shoot down because they are completely unobjective. I find Tyson fan boys just as silly, they end up doing a disservice to Tyson himself. Your questions are real ones to be asked about Tyson, I ask them myself. I think where I clash with the more reasonable debaters such as your self is when I veer into the theory territory (edit - seems kind of where Sangria is?), some of these theories I think are fair, going by the evidence and looking at it at from another angle, some I'll admit are dangerously close to being biased.

I do think I have fair arguments for some of the negatives the haters put forward, such as Tyson was nothing but a bully, he couldn't win unless the opponent was scared, he was at his best against Douglas and Holyfiled in 96 to name a few. When I discuss the Douglas and Holyfield fights, what I like to make clear is that although I think he was under prepared, there is also solid evidence that Tokyo Douglas and Holyfield could have beaten any Tyson. I chop and change in relation to the 91 Holy fight that never happened but I in no way believe even a fully prepared Tyson would have had an easy time there. Douglas had all the tools that night to beat Tyson whatever shape he was in and Holyfield had the kind of mentality that would be a nightmare for Mike.

I agree you have to go with the facts, and as a long time boxing fan I have slowly realised my bias towards my favourite fighters clouded reality, I think this happens to most people but the big name fighters like Tyson seem to bring out the disputes. They are the guys that are the obvious choice for fans, well known and the casuals always rate them over the quieter guys like Holyfield, Lewis and past greats. I think that causes a lot of resent and I understand that. Its almost like the Bruce Lee theory that he could beat anyone ever at anytime in human history. It brings out the purists, the guys that know there stuff to bring a bit of reality in. Its also brings out haters that wont hear of any positives concerning a guy like Tyson, even going so far as character assassination which isn't even what the debate is about.

anyway, interesting stuff but am rambling on a bit. I have to say I find it all entertaining either way when I get a chance to post here, you need the haters and the reasonable people to get some clarity.

 

I agree that it seems unlikely to be brain damage because Tyson seemed bright as a button last year in some interviews, could he have deteriorated that quickly? The one I heard the other day was just sad, it was like he wasn't there and people were talking around him, reminded me of old Ali. I keep waiting to see some news on it for for him to start sounding better. Sad stuff that's for sure as he seemed to be doing great in himself the last few years.

 

Then why are all the Tyson Haters the only ones agreeing with you? Speak on that...hating ass hater mother****er!

 

You're absolutely right. His back surgery was a while ago and I'm not sure if it was from the spill he took in 2015 from the hoverboard...

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Oh please desist!

 

Tyson was great maybe not the elite all time great that he was on his way to bring.
That fight with Holy in 91 would have settled everything and Mike camcelled curiously because of a rib injury. I honestly don't believe Tyson wanted to fight after Douglas.
At the end of the day he was human.

 

Now THAT'S maturity! !!!!!!!!