Was Usyk Unbeatable At Cruiserweight ?

Usyk was consistently fighting the best at cruiserweight. That's probably a harder task than fighting journeyman at heavyweight. At heavyweight matchmaking sucks so if you want to fight the best it might not be a great division to campaign in.

 

Usyk fighting the best at cruiserweight ... when the best he fought at cruiserweight were primarily a handful of former heavyweights who never won anything at the heavier weight ... doesn't ring any bells for me, honestly.

Cruiserweight has always been a historically weak division, which is why it's the only division the orgs seem to feel is okay to screw around with the weight limits.

I've typed a lot of glowing things about Carlos DeLeon. I'm not a super fan of his. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.

But the fact is DeLeon MADE the cruiserweight division. DeLeon beat the original titlist in the division. He won more Ring/Lineal titles in the division than anyone else. He made more Ring/Lineal title defenses than anyone else. He was the first Cruiserweight Champion whose fights were aired on U.S. television as well as to a global audience. He was a fixture in the title picture or the defending champion for an entire decade. DeLeon beat a former World heavyweight champion (not a paper champ, THE champ) at the weight who was expected to beat him. He lost his World title to another future World Heavyweight Champion and all-time great.

Whether he won or lost, Carlos DeLeon was the cruiserweight division for the entire run of the 1980s. Holyfield never would've been recognized as the World Cruiserweight Champion unless he beat Carlos DeLeon, who was the World/Ring champion at the weight.

So what's all that worth? Holding the most Ring titles in a weight class? Making the most "World" title defenses in a weight class? Being a four-time champ in a weight class? Taking the mantle from the first champion and carrying it for the better part of an entire decade? Putting the division on the map.

Is that worth more than a guy moving down in weight, unifying four belts and moving back up?

Seems like it should be.

Seems like IT WOULD BE if we were talking about any other division.

 

Just nuke this division, 168 and 154 for the love of god.


But I'd probably favor Usyk over all the "cruiserweight" but Holyfield. Holyfield, Qawi, Toney, Jirov, Gomez, Mormeck, Norris, Bell, Al Cole, Haye etc all tough customers. Its hard for me to make Usyk an underdog against any of those guys (barring Holyfield) but its also hard for me to imagine he doesn't pick up at least one L against one of those guys on a given night.

 

I pick Holyfield, Toney and Quawi to win.

 

No one is unbeatable.
I'd say Usyk is the peak vs peak, H2H favorite over all the other Cruiserweights, but no one is unbeatable.
Under such circumstances (peak vs peak, H2H), Usyk would win at least 6 out of 10 fights against Holyfield, but he would not win all 10.
No one is unbeatable.

 

LOL no

 

It's an interesting factoid that De Leon fought at lightweight as a 17 year old boy but it doesn't make him winning the 1980 cruiserweight title (in a division which had only been around since 1979) at 182 lbs more than 4 years later any more impressive to me.

Holyfield and Usyk didn't make a bunch of defences of the Ring cruiserweight title because they cleaned out the division and moved up to heavyweight. They didn't become four time cruiser champions because unlike De Leon they didn't lose as cruisers, let alone four times.

Nelson, Huck and Gomez made more successful cruiserweight title defences than De Leon but no one has them in the debate for best cruiser ever, for good reason.

 

Exactly, good post.

 

If people thought that Spinks was going to take over the cruiserweight division it was because they really didn't rate the cruiserweight division.

Spinks' win over Ali had come after Ali had got 3 highly controversial decisions in his last 5 (Young, Norton 3, Shavers) and was on the cusp of being beaten to a pulp by Holmes. Spinks somehow bungled the rematch against an even more diminished Ali, got KO'd in 1 by Coetzee, was KO'd in 3 by Holmes and failed to stop two LHW/cruiser journeymen in lacklustre performances before his loss to De Leon.

It may have been a massive win for De Leon's career but it certainly wasn't a super high level win.

 

He gives Wilder too much credit for only fighting at heavyweight when for Wilder's first 6 years and 32 fights his best opponents were Morales, Sconiers, K. Price, Harrison, Liakhovich, Scott, Firtha and Gavern (and even then, Sconiers dropped him, Harrison laid an egg and Scott took a dive). Plus in Wilder's title run Molina and Szpilka were former cruiserweights.

Barring Ortiz, no one that Wilder has beaten at heavyweight would be favoured to have a winning record against Usyk's 7 cruiserweight title opponents.

 

Says the genius who claimed that Joshua would beat Usyk twice and that Usyk was just looking for a payout.

Really, shut up. You hate Usyk. We all get it. But after consistency betting against Uysk and Fury when he fought Wilder, your opinion no longer counts. There are certain fighters that you underestimate, and ones you over estimate, not for logical reasons, but for your own.

 

Muhammad Ali was 55-2 and the World Heavyweight Champion when Leon Spinks beat him in the Fight of the Year in 1978.

Ali was known for closing strong. Ali had nearly stopped Shavers in the final round of his last fight five months earlier. Ali defeated Norton by winning the last round of their fight on all three cards. Ali pummeled Frazier and forced the fight to be stopped before the 15th round of their third meeting. And the 15th round of Ali-Spinks 1 was the round of the year in 1978.

Nobody picked Leon's win over Ali. It was a great fight. Great performance. Spinks went 15 hard rounds ... never stopped punching ... and it was only his eighth fight.

He threw more punches in the last round of that fight than some heavyweights do over 12 rounds these days.

Don't diminish Leon's win over Ali. And don't diminish DeLeon's win over Leon. They were both excellent fights.

 

Usyk and Wilder should've fought in the 2008 Olympic heavyweight semifinals, but Usyk lost his quarterfinal bout.

Looks like Usyk and Wilder could fight next, according to Shelley Finkel. So, we'll finally get to see who is the better of the two.

I'll go with Wilder by brutal stoppage.

 

Did I read you went for AJ over Usyk too? Even in the rematch?

 

None of them were the World Cruiserweight Champion. They have ZERO World Cruiserweight title defenses.

So they don't get discussed like guys who didn't win the World Title at heavyweight and don't have any World Heavyweight Title defenses don't get mentioned in discussions on who is the best heavyweight ever.

But if you want to talk about them, go ahead.

(Side note: Carlos DeLeon made his last successful defense against Nelson 10 years after first winning the WBC belt.)