Watching ALI/Bonevena and couldn't help to think

Hell, i'd pick BonAvena (can any of you ****ers spell?) to beat Williams or Folley, two of the most over-rated SOB's to come down the pike.

 

Zora Folley outpointed Bonavena with ease in what was effectively a shutout.

 

Bonavena went twenty five rounds and took the best shots of Joe Frazier. His chin was excellent. True he suffered a few knockdowns by Jimmy Ellis but Ellis was an extremely fast puncher with the right and packed very underated power. Either way, Oscar shook them off and was no where near getting stopped. He also took the best of Zora Folley, George Chavalo, Leotis Martin and Blue Lewis, all serious punchers. Ali was the only man to ever knock him out.

SQ: Marciano looked bad and struggled against Johnny Pretzie before stopping him. Rocky looked bad going the distance against Don Morgard. Despite legend that Marciano was never hurt in his career he was badly hurt and almost stopped early by Ted Lowry in 1949. Lowry rocked Marciano badly in both the first and second rounds of their bout and again in the fourth. He was a punch away fom a loss. Many at the time felt Lowry held back and let Marciano regroup as if a fix was in. You don't hear much about these fights because so much of Rocky's career has been washed over but he was human. Read the coverage of the bouts, it's all there.

 

Bonavena could only manage a split dec against a 37 year old Zora Folley ,and he was fighting in his home town of Buenos Aries ,earlier in his career Folley schooled him taking a unanimous dec ,and dropping him for an 8 count in the 8th round.Oscar was rugged but his chin was not granite apart from Folley, Ellis dropped him twice ,Ali 3 times.A prime Cleveland Williams might have kod him.

 

Ali was desperate in the last round of that fight. He probably didn't have much left and the referee just let Ali hover over Bonavena without forcing him to stay in the neutral corner.

If Oscar was able to engage Ali cleanly after the knockdowns, he might've had a chance to better defend himself. Ali got away with hovering over Bonavena and was lucky the ref let him do that to finish him off.

 

It's a fair assumption to make that Muhammad Ali of Cleveland Williams clearly beats any other Heavyweight in history by this logic.

I think any version of Muhammad Ali, bar the Spinks, Berbick, and Holmes fight, easily outpoints any version of Rocky Marciano. Styles make fights, and Marciano telegraphs to often, and is to slow footed to land anything hard enough on Ali to knock him out. History tells us, even if he lands his right hand, Ali would still be right infront of him.

I don't rate Rocky Marciano that highly.

 

I think you sell Rocky short, I would favour him (in his prime) against any version of Ali post Manilla.

 

hate to mention this, but a computer in 1969 had Marciano beating Ali.

 

yeah and Ali won in the European version. Never seen it as i'd rather watch a fight that is real LOL.

 

I probably am selling Rocky Marciano short, but I don't think reputations make fights. By reputation, Hearns should have never been able to spark Roberto Duran like he did. By reputation, Leonard should have been blown out against Hagler considering the circumstances, but neither of those things happened. Styles make fights, and I don't ever imagine Ali having problems with Marciano over a 12 round fight or a 15 round fight. Ali had freakish stamina also, and holds every possible advantage except for power and pressure. If Walcott outboxes Marciano, so does Ali. Just my opinion, not intending to sell anybody short.

 

I don't think Ali post-Manilla had the stamina, the speed, the power or the accuracy to keep Marciano off of him. Most other versions of Ali wins over Marciano IMO.

 

Post-Manilla. :-(

 

in his 8th fight? i'm talking prime for prime.

 

And Bonavena came back to decision Foley later ... my argument here is not that Oscar was an all time great heavyweight ...it is that he was a very tough, unconventional, super strong, hard hitting bull who was a very tough nut . He was also inconsistent and at times underperformed but at his best look out ...