Watching Pac-DLH again makes me believe...

atsch <<< says it all.

 

So I guess if Pacquaio beats Hatton it was just a match making dream, a low risk high reward going against the reconzied champ and a guy that never lost at 140. I see it now, cant wait for your threads post fight. Matter of fact, I'll do it right now ahead of time. "Pacquaio beats Hatton but who cares"

 

All of these opinions have to do with DLH today. You close off with saying Hoya was never great and you use these opinions about him today (that he was shot) to argue everyone's points for them.

DLH had tremendous speed. What are you talking about? Not as much as Mosley but Mosley was faster in his prime than Mayweather and perhaps Pacquaio.

Also Roach chased the fight with Oscar, not the other way around. And De La Hoya never fought backwards since maybe the Vargas fight because he didn't need to! He was younger then.

 

Castillo wasnt favourite at all. The general notion was that Hatton was too big and too strong for the old Castillo who was struggling to make weight. People knew Castillo was gonna loose before the fight, unlike the "oh DLH by murder" vs Pac before the fight.

 

im just breaking down the Pacquaio fight. All you guys wanted to give him the win without breaking it down. thats why I make the big bucks. go to espn and ask for Buck, everybody knows me. I give the winners because I break down fights. as you can see, you cant argue about none of those things expect for maybe the black eye. everybody wants to say his past his prime but its not past his prime, its that hes just not that good. has anybody just realize that Pacquaio is just the better boxer????

 

That's correct, Hatton was the favourite. I got it wrong.

 

Ivan Calderon is a better boxer than Nikolai Valuev, doesn't mean Calderon would win a fight against him. The problem I have with your so-called analysis is, you say Oscar had or has no speed, that is just bizzare, sounds to me like you've never seen him fight. He built his entire career around speed and power.

 

Prime DLH KO Pac at WW. Prime Oscar UD PBF 147-154.

I'm not buying this whole thing of Oscar being shot just when Manny got to him though. Oscar to me was no different than when he fought PBF & Forbes. He was limited, lost his feet completely on all fights, speed was gone. His only success with PBF was when he grabbed PBF and hit him on the hold...perhaps his timing and reaction was better...

 

You have some points, chiefly, that Hoya never developed a straight right that was strong enough for him to rely on it. This is the most damn straight truth there is here. I don't argue with that. DLH's biggest handicap. Also, DLH was a lefty himself and so he took right hands from others' very easily.

These are very valid points.

But Hoya looked like crap from the opening bell. In all honesty, both factors came into play. 1) Bad stylsitic match up. 2) Weight drained, passed prime fighter.

But two say factor 2 is not an issue is delusional.

 

if Manny wins its a good win for him, I aint saying that the Morales Barrera and DLH wins are not good neither, I am simply saying too many of you go bat**** crazy over them, when you know the reality surrounding those wins.

if Manny wins honestly I think that there is very little left for him to do at this stage, unless he fights Floyd, But I am not so sure Roach wants that fight. Either way I am saying this is a real test for Manny and we will finally see what he looks like against a top notch fighter in his prime who is bigger.

 

okay he does have speed, but not more then Pacquaio. im just saying that everybody wants to say that DLH was just weight drained, how about just saying Pacquaio is the better boxer. maybe ppl think DLH is so great (which I dont know why, hes good but not great) that there should be no way he should've lost that fight to Pacquaio or even get KO. so ppl come up with excuses. he didnt look right, I'll give you that, but even David Diaz went farther then DLH, so what does that say??

 

I agree 100% with this part.

I haven't seen the Forbes fight properly, but I thought there was a noticable differences between the Oscar that fought FMJ, and the one that fought Pac. Firstly, Oscar wasn't scared to engage Floyd, he looked way more tenative against Pac, ironically he was more scared of Pac's power than he was Floyd's.

I thought Oscar generally looked a lot more lethargic and cautious against Pac, I attribute that to the weight related stamina and energy issues, and also how well Pac was moving and performing in general, especially in contrast to how poorly FMJ performed on the night.

Like you mention, I thought his timing was better against Floyd, he landed a few nice counters, and he actually seemed to have some power and belief on his body shots.

There was no power against Pac, nothing on the punches, no belief whatsoever that he could even catch him and land cleanly, let alone hurt him.

I don't see a radical difference between the two fights, but there is no doubt in my mind that the Oscar that fought FMJ, was better than the Oscar that fought Pac, with the main reason being the weight issue, and another reason being the continuing gradual decline of Oscar. He was just a little closer to the end when he fought the Pac-Man.

And this is all totally ignoring the pyschological issues that stem from being an ageing, semi retired former great on the slide. Oscar doesn't have the fighters heart anymore, hasn't had it since Hopkins, IMO.

 

How about a mix of things, Oscar was at the end of his career and had weight issues, while Pacquiao was at the top of his game:deal that is really what happend.
and David Diaz going further than DLH further proves Oscar was a shell of his former self

 

What Bazoka said sums up with I think also.

I agree that Oscar isn't or wasn't as quick as Pac, but a great example of how quick Oscar was, see RD 12 of the Quartey fight.

 

or Pacquaio is just good.