Watching the Kings documentary showed something

Flash24 · Jun 22, 2021

Dubblechin said: ↑

I haven't watched it yet. And I've posted this before. But I remember when the four kings were Leonard, Hearns, Benitez and Duran.

I think a VHS highlight tape came out at some point in the late 80s or early 90s that put Hagler in there, and removed Benitez, but for most of the 80s in REAL TIME Benitez was the fourth guy, not Hagler.

You can go back thru old boxing mags from like 1980 on, and those four were THE GUYS.

And there were more prime fights featuring those guys with Benitez. And they all came up thru the divisions basically together.

Leonard-Benitez was a case of both guys fighting at their best. Benitez-Hearns took place before Hearns-Hagler and had both guys (Benitez and Hearns) fighting very close to prime. Leonard-Hearns 1. Leonard-Duran 1 and 2. Even Benitez-Duran took place before Hagler-Duran.

Again, I haven't watched this new doc. But I don't know how Wilfred got bumped out. Maybe the VHS tape was put out years ago by Top Rank, Hagler's promoter. And that started it.

But when I hear the Four Kings in relation to boxing, I always think of Leonard, Hearns, Benitez and Duran. NOT Hagler.

Hagler was a middleweight the whole time, whereas the others were welters together, super welters together (Leonard beat Kalule for the WBA junior middleweight belt a couple weeks after Benitez knocked out Hope for the WBC version), on up to Leonard, Hearns and Duran fighting each other at super middle.
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Love this!!!! I argue this point ALL the time, how Benitez is ALWAYS left out of the equation. Someone once pointed out to me "Well he didn't fight Hagler, and the others did". But as I pointed out in that conversation, that means Hagler didn't fight him either". It just depends on one's point of view. Seeing how Hagler had problems with slick well schooled fighters, it may have been a good thing for him he didn't. Especially between 80-82.
Benitez looked better than Duran did against Leonard and Hearns overall. It's a shame Benitez gets so overlooked when this subject comes up. A disservice to him.

Dubblechin · Jun 22, 2021

Flash24 said: ↑

Love this!!!! I argue this point ALL the time, how Benitez is ALWAYS left out of the equation. Someone once pointed out to me "Well he didn't fight Hagler, and the others did". But as I pointed out in that conversation, that means Hagler didn't fight him either". It just depends on one's point of view. Seeing how Hagler had problems with slick well schooled fighters, it may have been a good thing for him he didn't. Especially between 80-82.
Benitez looked better than Duran did against Leonard and Hearns overall. It's a shame Benitez gets so overlooked when this subject comes up. A disservice to him.
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He wasn't overlooked at the time.

Lenny · Jun 22, 2021

Not buying this one........ get back soon. Benitez too good too early

Flash24 · Jun 23, 2021

Dubblechin said: ↑

He wasn't overlooked at the time.
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Correct. in fact , if I remember right , one of the boxing mags of the time ( Don't remember which) on the cover had Benitez, Leonard, Hearns and Duran . No Hagler in sight .

he grant · Jun 23, 2021

demigawd said: ↑

After watching the documentary, I was reminded of a couple of important facts:

1. "Prime" today is a few years older than it did back then. Hearns was considered washed up by 29 whereas today we consider that a year or two into a fighter's prime.

2. As much as we hold these fights up as the standard of "prime ATG fighters taking each other on", only a couple of the 9 fights really met that criteria.

I would argue that Duran was past his prime in every fight but the first Leonard fight. All of the sequel fights in the series had either one or both fighters past their prime or effective weight division. And I would even argue that Duran-Leonard 1 was pre-prime Leonard.

So what fights does that leave where both fighters were at their physical, mental and tactical peak?

Leonard-Hearns 1
Hagler-Hearns

That might be it.

You could make a case for Leonard-Duran 1, the same way you could that Canelo was prime vs. Mayweather. But that's a debate we should have.

What do you think?
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I haven't seen it yet but having lived through it , watched every fight and the build ups in real time I will be interested to see if it adds anything new .. the me the Kings were Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Benitez .. all fighting in the same weight classes .. Hagler did come years later ..

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Watching the Kings documentary showed something

Were Duran and Leonard both prime for their first fight?

No

Yes

Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Lenny Member Full Member

Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

he grant Historian/Film Maker

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Watching the Kings documentary showed something

Were Duran and Leonard both prime for their first fight?

No

Yes

Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Lenny Member Full Member

Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

he grant Historian/Film Maker