We must recognize the difference between ATGS AND HOFS

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by modernfonzie, May 11, 2015.

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  1. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    At 147, maybe not many. How about at 135?

    :smoke
     
    Rumsfeld, May 11, 2015
    #31
  2. Ducklerr

    Ducklerr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Completely agree. Let's say we only use the traditional 8 weight classes. Shortening the list to 25 would only allow an average of 3 ATG fighters per weight class over more than a century of boxing history. And that's before we even try to include any fighters who plied their trade predominantly at the more recently incorporated divisions.
     
    Ducklerr, May 11, 2015
    #32
  3. modernfonzie

    modernfonzie Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not Pea
    Not Duran
    Not Armstrong

    Maybe Castillo. Actually I favor him over Castillo
     
    modernfonzie, May 11, 2015
    #33
  4. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    :thumbsup

    It's pretty easy to come up with more than 25 names if you just look at marquee divisions like 147, 160, and 175 without even venturing into heavyweight. And I'm talking genuine, bonafide ATGs.
     
    Rumsfeld, May 11, 2015
    #34
  5. Ducklerr

    Ducklerr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Off the top? Only including guys I've seen fight (or at least extensive footage of)

    Ortiz
    Arguello (not his best division, but whatever)
    Duran
    Floyd
    Sweet Pea

    Then if we include legacy guys who I haven't seen as much of?
    Armstrong
    Gans
    Benny Leonard
    Ike Williams
    Canzoneri

    Probably a bunch I'm leaving off the legacy list but I'm not a historian.
     
    Ducklerr, May 11, 2015
    #35
  6. Ducklerr

    Ducklerr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yep, exactly. 25 is far too prohibitive IMO.
     
    Ducklerr, May 11, 2015
    #36
  7. buckdacious

    buckdacious Sin~City punks!!! Full Member

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    totally agree bro!! :good:good
     
    buckdacious, May 11, 2015
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  8. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not even saying that I think Mosley would beat most ATG lightweights. But he would sure have a great chance against a lot of them! And you didn't even mention a complete handful. There are also guys like Benny Leonard, Ike Williams, Joey Gans, Carlos Ortiz, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, etc, etc.

    :smoke
     
    Rumsfeld, May 11, 2015
    #38
  9. modernfonzie

    modernfonzie Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I like SSM over Arguello at 135.
     
    modernfonzie, May 11, 2015
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  10. modernfonzie

    modernfonzie Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    So Rum, IYO, what should the criteria be?
     
    modernfonzie, May 11, 2015
    #40
  11. Ducklerr

    Ducklerr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ya it was an older version of Arguello at 135. But he still beat that mug, Jim Watt, and I will always love him for that.
     
    Ducklerr, May 11, 2015
    #41
  12. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    :good

    And nice list of names. I'm not historian, either, but one thing I've learned after decades of being a boxing fan is that there's always more to learn - and in my case, there's especially more to learn.
     
    Rumsfeld, May 11, 2015
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  13. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't have a clue! :lol:

    I understand that there are distinctions to be made between ATG and HOF. But there are too many ways of viewing it.

    I just think limiting it to 25 is silly. By that logic, you can make an argument that we haven't had a true all time great in a couple of decades.
     
    Rumsfeld, May 11, 2015
    #43
  14. Ducklerr

    Ducklerr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Haha same here. It's a scary undertaking to try and create an ATG ranking. Hearns is my favorite fighter of all time and when I think about offhand he's easily a top 100 ATG, right? Well, maybe not, there's 150 years of names to get through.
     
    Ducklerr, May 11, 2015
    #44
  15. Ducklerr

    Ducklerr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Yep if it's top 25 I think the last one would be Duran. And I'm not trying to be a faux historian or snob, it's just f*ck there's a lot of guys out there.
     
    Ducklerr, May 11, 2015
    #45
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