What fighter was the hardest to outpoint?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Nov 14, 2007.

  1. Luigi1985

    Luigi1985 Cane Corso Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,632
    Likes Received:
    30

    I agree with your post in general, but IMO Walcott had a much harder one-punch. With Vitaly you´re also right, you would need very good footwork, great stamina, good chin and a great jab to outpoint him, it wouldn´t be a walk in the park, I wouldn´t want to face Vitaly... :yep
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    114,795
    Likes Received:
    51,821
    I reckon he would duck you Luigi, so never worry.
     
  3. Luigi1985

    Luigi1985 Cane Corso Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    4,632
    Likes Received:
    30

    That´s logical, I´m a big 5´9- bodybuilding HW-junkie, he´s just a small 6´7 HW who got injured everytime he trains... :lol:


    no, seriously, I just meant that to face Vitaly it would be very hard, he has a dangerous package (size, weight, power, stamina, chin, pace, etc.) even for most ATG´s he would be dangerous...
     
  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,363
    Ali is in the lead by a good margin. I don't think Klitshcko would have issues winning rounds vs the likes of Doug Jones, or give up rounds to the likes of Mildenberger.
     
  5. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    25,495
    Likes Received:
    2,179
    Corbett, because most of his fights were scheduled for 25 rounds or more, thus he would by default be the hardest to outpoint.;)
     
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    114,795
    Likes Received:
    51,821
    Fair point, I would just say though that giving up rounds is not the most crucial factor here. The fighter most difficult to outpoint would be the fighter who tended to get the job done against the highest level of competition, rather than the one who has given up the most rounds v mediocre opposition.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,996
    Likes Received:
    28,006
    I think that Carlos Monzon for most types of fighter would be a prety tough asignment.
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    114,795
    Likes Received:
    51,821
    At MW, I absolutley agree, he'd be murder to outpoint.

    Do you think Greb could do it over 15 or not? 1950's rules. Overhand rights all night long.
     
  9. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    71,996
    Likes Received:
    28,006
    I tend to think that Greb might be the man to do it.

    The long range fighters who beat Greb generally did it by going to the body and not giving him room to set up his whirlwind attack (usualy after a couple of failed experiments at trying to deal with him at arms length).
     
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    55,226
    Likes Received:
    49,556
    Away from the heavyweights peak Thomas Hearns is not often losing by points.
     
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    55,255
    Likes Received:
    10,363
    The thread is who is the hardest to out box. When up against good fighters, Ali lost two decisions vs Frazier and Norton. He had a close call vs Jimmy Young, and was behind on a fair score cards vs Lyle before delivering a great right cross that lead to a TKO stoppage.

    If you add in Ali’s fits vs mid level guys like Jones and Midenberger, one begins to wonder if he was that hard to out point. Part of what made Ali great was his heart, mind, and fighting for a cause he believed in. Ali adapted, kept his wits, and had the durability to over come.

    I tend to doubt the modern boxer puncher types with top end skills and power struggle with the Doug Jones', and Karl Mildebergers' of boxing. In fact, Jimmy Young would have a very hard time with either Lewis or Klitschko. When you have greater size, and power as Lewis and Klitschko do, the smaller boxer types who lack range / perfer to out fight are out of business, and the swarming in fighter types have to step into the danger zone and better have grade " A " chins. Ali’s power was just good enough to get most guys out of there early, or get the respect of the smaller boxer or swarmers the way Lewis and Klitschko could. This is why he gave up rounds.

    It is possible / probable that Lewis and Klitschko are harder to beat on points than Ali. In fact neither Lewis, V. Klitschko, or Klitschko has ever lost a match on points in a combined 130 fights!

    This is not to say Lewis or Klitschko were better fighters, but in the context of the question, “Who was the hardest to out point, “ I'd vote for these two over Ali.

    My $.02
     
  12. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    25,495
    Likes Received:
    2,179
    You are right, but the irony being Iran Barkley :shock: proves the rule!
     
  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    55,226
    Likes Received:
    49,556
    Even more ironic is my mention of "peak". The Hearns that Barkley outpointed was so far past his peak even Rooster might concede :hey

    Hearns was flogging Barkley on points in their first encounter when while younger, still past peak.
     
  14. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    25,495
    Likes Received:
    2,179
    Sure it was not peak Motor City Cobra, but the second fight did happen when Hearns was having his dead man's bounce...
     
  15. Bill1234

    Bill1234 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Messages:
    8,314
    Likes Received:
    505
    Ali for me. Even if you did deserve sometimes they gave it to Ali, not much you can do about that.