Look at Ali vs Ringo. Cut up like steel! He never looked better. Next vs Joe, flabby no comparison Ali trained but half assed. Read the book and compare Alis physique and you'll see.
Slak, Ali is considered a big man by any standard..... Ali was near or at 212 for Oscar Bonavena in Dec. of '70, and 215 for Frazier in March of 1971........... 3 goddamn pounds up or down is not any indication that Ali foresake his training for Joe in New York.......... Ali looked flabby for the first time in his career when he faced Buster Mathis, Sr. in 1972 when he weighed 227 pounds to Mathis' ugly and gross 256 pounds....... Ali had to take heat from ABC TV and Cosell for being porky.......... MR.BILL:thumbsup
And on top of that, Floyd came back against an older super featherweight who came up to welter to fight Floyd, and a 38 year old inconsistent fighter who had been out of action more than a year. Mayweather has yet to face an opponent nearly as challenging as Frazier was to Ali. Pacquiao is probably the only opponent that would fall into that class for him.
Slacker, I'm an Ali nutgrabber............ I know quite a bit about his ups and downs of his pro career........ Don't "F" with me......... Peace...... MR.BILL:bbb:hat
Actually I am glad someone like Mr Bill is on here, as much as I wanted Ali to have beaten Joe in the first fight I normally have to admit to people that it was a loss plain and simple. But I agree with Mr Bill in that Ali tagged Joes ass with jabs and combos for most of the fight, unfortuently Joe was throwing that power left hook and bang he was landing and hurting Ali. I could never understand though, all I see Joe doing in that fight, is bobbing and weaving in the most annoying way, and throwing the left hook, almost spamming it. Why didnt Ali just cover up his right side of his face when Frazier came in? it was clear when Joe couldnt land to the head he pounded Ali's body, which left his head open, for a super fast Ali to take advantage off. All Ali had to do, was protect his right side of his face and that would have done it, imo.
Odd as it seems, Ali in 1971 and a mere age 29 was not yet adept and tying a man up or playing off the ropes.... It's still safe to state that while Ali made 9 (I think) title defenses' from 1964 thru 1967, he never faced an aggressive unit like Joe Frazier before....... George Chuvalo in 1966 was prolly the closest guy to compare with Frazier....... That and with the layoff, Ali natuarally ate more leather than anticipated.... That's my guess..... MR.BILLthumbsup:hat
Yeah I guess so, but I would also say, didn't moving and avoiding the punch come natural to Ali? or is it a simple case of his brain telling is body to move, but the body struggling to keep up? Like he said when he faught Holmes, he knew what to do, but he could not get his body to do it. Also as an Ali fan, I can't stand watching the Norton fights, he is another guy I wish Ali had whooped convicingly.
At first, against Quarry in '70, I thought Ali looked razor sharp, but Quarry was made to order for Ali..... :hey Against Oscar Bonavena, Ali looked rusty and out of synch in getting the 15th round TKO over Oscar........ Ali did need another good fight to prepare for Frazier, but their was no more time....... Ali had to deal with Frazier next cuz the deal and money was set in place.......... MR.BILL
Also Ali had that 5 year prison sentence hanging over his head,and he had to get the Frazier fight in as quickly as possible. He could indeed have done with another fight or two before taking on Frazier.
I don't know about Ali being "flabby". This content is protected This content is protected I'd say that he looked better against Frazier. Not necessarily in better shape, but he fought better. I don't see the point in being in better shape for Bonavena than in the biggest fight of all time against Frazier.
Usually when I see Frazier/Ali threads on here, the majority swing towards Frazier, so I am glad there are at least two Ali fans on here. But Frazier deserves the credit and the win, he was a beast that night, I am just glad Ali won the next two fights against him. Also, I have never seen the Berbick fight, how close was it? or did Trev win by a margin?
Although I was,and am a great Ali fan,I also have a lot of respect for Joe Frazier. The Berbick fight was horrible,but Ali was competitive.
I agree that Ali was in shape. But since everyone wants to make excuses when their favourites lose, I'll weigh in with that Mailer wrote in The Fight that Ali couldn't wait for training to end each day before FOTC, so he could drink champagne and **** lots of beautiful girls. So, that's both Dundee and Mailer saying he didn't take training before FOTC that seriously. Think I'll whip this one out every time excuses for Liston, Duran, Tyson etc are made.