I still enjoy watching the second Norton fight. I always say that this was the first fight after Muhammad's exile,where he looked the most like his 1967 self.
You're right on the money Bokaj...!! Ali was in pretty good shape for the FOTC,but no where near as fit as he could have been.
I'm not saying that. He looked in fine shape to me. I'm just poitning out that there's room to make a case for him being unprepared if the urge arises. Some for example treat the Liston Ali beat as a shot drunk just waiting to be taken, not to mention every time Duran lost. This is just as, or even more, credible.
True. The Liston that Ali beat may have been past his best,but still formidable. I doubt if any other ranked heavy at that time could have taken him.
Any fighter that did not have the punch of George Foreman or mike tyson was going to have a hard time with frazier. You had to have that type of punch to hurt frazier with, otherwise he would just keep coming. Ali, while a good puncher, was not a devastating one so he was forced to fight toe to toe. What also affected him of course was the lay-off which caused his legs to be less than their best. Frazier was immensly strong and determined and simply impossed his will on his opponents and they had to be able to deal with it, otherwise they would just be overwhelmed. It took for foreman to knock frazier down 5 or 6 times before the fight was stopped.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Bk...m=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=oscar&f=false Im trying to tell you what happed. If u don't wanna listen (or read) for your self its up to you. page 149 if interested
Ali managed to train down to 212 pounds for the rematch with Norton... Ali was like a lightning bug for the first 6 rds, but Norton turned on the juice and came close to winning the fight..... I scored the rematch of '73 a close shave for Ali.... 6-5-1 over 12 rds.... ALI! Let Norton go home and cry a river to sleep...... :good:hat:yikes MR.BILL
People rag on Ali's conditioning for Frazier in fight # 1, but Ali looked fine at 215 pounds.... He was strong, quick handed but more so flat-footed in FOTC come 1971.... He was a wee bit rusty..... STILL! Ali was no slob like "Dokes, Page, Tubbs or Buster Douglas" later on in the 80s.... Like I said earlier, had Ali not been dropped by Joe in the 15th round, a lot of folks would've shittin' a brick if Ali didn't get his belt back.... Screw the cards. Cards can be doctored.. It happens all the time... On my card, Ali was in control of the fight before getting decked... The deck job by Frazier was dramatic and made an everlasting impression in regards to the fights outcome... IMO! Other than George Chuvalo and Oscar Bonavena, I had never seen such a rugged dude of world class quality as Joe Frazier eat as many lefts and rights for 15 rds from Ali ever before...... Frazier's face and health was a mess after the fight...... Frazier looked like he had some boxing bukkake done to him..... OOHH!! MR.BILL
Did you see Joe Fraizer's face after the fight..? Ali put a serious serious beating on Joe Frazier, but still lost the fight. Joe Frazier is a great fighter, and beat Muhammad Ali....simple as. Muhammad Ali had a proper lay off, Floyd Mayweather just did'nt fight for 2 years. Floyd Mayweather is a gym rat, and still trainned in the gym. Muhammad Ali when he went into exile, went into exile from the gym...!! put some weight on, and had a good ****ing time. But i don't think Muhammad Ali was dramatically affected against Joe Faizer, he was still lightening fast and very agile. Joe Fraizer was the better fighter that night...!!
Thanks. Interesting read. As I said, Ali looked fine to me, but Dundee may have a point that he wasn't 100% prepared, that he lacked that extra edge that only absolutely committed training will give you. Being the trainer he's no doubt in a good position to tell.
I rem an interview with belinda (Ali's second wife) she said that the night before the fight she caught him with some chick in his hotel.
Even if the knockdown did not happen, I still had Joe ahead by a good margin in rounds. About 9-6 for Joe about. Ali may have control the pace of the fight, but he was not scoreing the round laying on the ropes with thsos patter pitty punchings which gave Joe a few of thsos goof off rounds imo. Not saying had Ali won, it would be a robbery, it was a close fight, but I dont think the knockdown was what declear Frazier the winner, it was the output, and nabbing rounds with his pressue, and Ali's goofing off. If your lieing on the ropes and claiming your God, and not punching back, the round goes to Joe about imo.
Bottom line..... I heard yrs ago that Dr. Ferdie Pacheco said March of '71 was too soon for Ali to jump in there with Joe Frazier, but the economic demand (2.5 million purse) convinced team Ali to go through with the fight anyway.... According to the Fight Doctor, the team really wanted Ali to have another tune-up fight in early '71 and go after Frazier in the summer....... But the overall plan didn't quite pan out as scheduled...... To this day I have never seen "Ali vs. Rudi Lubbers" from circa-'73...... MR.BILL