What if Holmes retired at 50-0?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by VG_Addict, Dec 16, 2012.

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  1. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What if Holmes not only met Marciano's undefeated record, but BROKE it, and retired at 50-0? Would he go down as the GOAT?
     
    VG_Addict, Dec 16, 2012
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  2. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A case could be made. He had great skills for a heavyweight. He's considered to have the best jab in the sport by many. His chalangers wern't the best in history though.
    He not only had the second longest unbeaten run, but the second most defenses. I think a lot might be dertermaned on who win #50 would have been against.
     
    ripcity, Dec 16, 2012
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  3. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Let's say he knocked out Spinks to make it 50-0.
     
    VG_Addict, Dec 16, 2012
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  4. The Funny Man 7

    The Funny Man 7 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No, because great wins always trump numbers, and like Marciano Holmes lacks the wins to stake his claim to being the greatest heavyweight ever.

    Its better to be 55-5 with wins over Frazier (2), Norton (2), Foreman, Liston (2), Patterson (2), Spinks, Shavers, Quarry (2), Ellis, and Bonavena surpass a 50-0 record with wins over Norton, Spinks, Witherspoon, Cooney, and Shavers.
     
    The Funny Man 7, Dec 16, 2012
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  5. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    It would depend how he beat Spinks to go 49-0. I don't recall the first fight being conterversual.
     
    ripcity, Dec 16, 2012
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  6. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sorry. I meant, what if he knocked out Spinks in both fights?
     
    VG_Addict, Dec 16, 2012
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  7. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Spinks wasn't expected to win the first time out. Had Holmes knocked Spinks to go 49-0. He'd have had faced someone else for fight 50.
     
    ripcity, Dec 16, 2012
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  8. bazza12

    bazza12 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not the greatest. And it depends who he fought. Technically talented, but wasn't a part of a super era, and had trouble with a lot of his best challengers.
     
    bazza12, Dec 16, 2012
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  9. JudgeDredd

    JudgeDredd Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I don't think Holmes would have got his props whatever he achieved.
     
    JudgeDredd, Dec 16, 2012
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  10. Danmann

    Danmann Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Holmes could have gone to 60-0, he still did not fight 3 best contenders, Doles, Page, and Coatzee. Also never gave Mike Weaver a much deserved rematch while he had title.
     
    Danmann, Dec 16, 2012
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  11. ripcity

    ripcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think his stock would go up if he could have unified for win #50. The WBC champion was Pinklon Thomas. Given the fact that Holmes gave up the WBC for the IBF, could that fight be made? The WBA champion was Tony Tubbs.
     
    ripcity, Dec 16, 2012
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  12. dyna

    dyna Boxing Junkie banned

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    He would be known as having never unified.
     
    dyna, Dec 16, 2012
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  13. cuchulain

    cuchulain Loyal Member Full Member

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    Don't think so.

    Marciano is 49-0 and few have him as GOAT

    It would cement his position (on MY list) at #5. Currently I have him tied with Marciano for that position.

    He might rise as high as #3 (behind Ali and Louis).

    He would, at 50-0, lose his decent later wins, including Mercer.

    Would a win over Spinks (which many thought he eventually got anyway) outweigh the dozens of fights he actually fought over the next decade or so ?
     
    cuchulain, Dec 17, 2012
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  14. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    A case could be made that he's greater than Louis.
     
    Asterion, Dec 17, 2012
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  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Everyone would just have said, "what a dick, why didn't he just fight on to 51-0? Surely he could beat a light-heavy no bother?"
     
    McGrain, Dec 17, 2012
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