What if Johnson and Jeffries

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by psychoshane, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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  2. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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  4. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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  5. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree with this. People do tend to underrate Johnson's strength. I consider him one of the strongest heavies ever.

    But I also contend that even if by chance he were stronger than Jeffries prime for prime, it would not be so much to the extent that he could pin Jeff's arms behind his back and have a happy, casual chat with the audience. To suggest or insinuate THAT (and to be fair, you haven't) is to severely underrate the type of fighter a prime Jeffries was.
     
  6. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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  8. Surf-Bat

    Surf-Bat Boxing Addict Full Member

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  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    What makes you so sure Johnson was not checked as a source for the story? Maybe he was, and maybe he did not. I would be willing to change opinion here, but let's pretend that Johnson did not tell many tall tales in and out of the ring.

    As for who was stronger between Johnson and Jeffries, it was Jeffries. If you watch the full fight ( you have not ), Jeffries does most of the pushing, and Johnson for the most part is in reverse until Jeffries tired. When someone is tired in the ring, they are rather easy to shove around.

    In his auto bio, Johnson said Jeffries was the greatest. Fellow predecessors and successors such as Corbett, Fitz, Langford, Jeanette, Burns, and Dempsey all agreed.

    In fact when they asked Langford and Jeanette to pick the winner of the 1910 match, both Jeanette and Langford went with Jeffries, even though he ballooned up to 300+ pounds, had not fought in 5 years, was 35, and had very little sparring in his own camp.

    Jeanette said : The only way Johnson wins is if Jeffires legs and arms are bound with balls and chains. An exaggeration of course, but it was also based on how great Jeffries was in his prime.

    Langford compared Jeffries to a great bear, and also felt Johnson would lose.

    I showed you a stark contrast in results of common opponents while Jeffires was active. And we know how lack luster Johnson looked in the Hart match. I highly doubt Johnson would have won if both were in their primes.

    Finally I want to say there is no source with Jeffries in detailed interview Jeffries said he could not have beaten Johnson in his prime. This is what he actually said right after the fight.

     
  10. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Ali looked good entering the ring against Holmes. People were astonished with how much weight he lost ... we obviously know better ...

    All we can go on here is the coverage from the men who fought Jeff and those who wrote about him... all universially praised his exceptional strength, endurance and over all ruggedness ... the man that fought Johnson did not belong in that ring in Reno, plain and simple ... I'm all for debating H2H prime battles between the two but any deductions drawn from Reno are simply way off ... as far as strength goes I'm sure Johnson was quite strong in his upper body but his legs really do look look like toothpicks compared to a prime Jeffries ...
     
  11. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Jeffries was in fantastic PHYSICAL condition but he'd been out of the ring too long, and properly retired too, not just laying off.
     
  12. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    He was not in fantastic physical condition. He made a remarkable cosmetic comeback. Huge difference ... the rapid weight loss hurt him more than helped him ..
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    We do not have the weights for the Johnson/ Choynski fight ,but in his next fight Choynski scaled 169lbs, Johnson, a year after the Choynski defeat scaled 185 lbs so 19lbs difference.Which is a bit different to the 63 lbs Choynski gave away to Jeffries.
    Choynski was 33 when he met Jeffries ,hardly old,six years younger than Fitz was when he faced Jeffries and ,4 years younger than Corbett when he fought Jeffries.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    I have zero interest in trying to change your opinion ,it is valueless to me.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    MENDACITY.
    Would you care to address the rebuttals I made to the lies you put up in your post on page 4?
    The post where you stated the fights with McVey were close,when in fact all three were one sided beat downs.
    The post where you piously declared you embrace the truth.
    When in fact you are the biggest LIAR this forum has had the misfortune of experiencing.