An odd statement. A boxer doesn't retain world class status indefinitely; age, mileage, injuries, diminished conditioning, loss of discipline etc all take their toll. Ezzard Charles was world class once but he clearly wasn't when he was losing more than he was winning against journeymen at the tail end of his career. And how can a Parkinsons afflicted 39-year-old in any way be considered 'world class'? Berbick's win over Pinklon Thomas was much more impressive.
If you claim to have so much information on him, why don't you fill these mythical gaps in for us? You keep referring to lost fights, hidden fights conspiracies but never come up with anything its just a lot of smoke and mirrors . Here is a sample of your blind hyperbole in it you call Gilroy either ,"the best or second best British middleweight ever ,"and "an alltime great". Jock McAvoy, SHUT-OUT of WORLD MW title-FEARED yet afforded the hypocritical right to fight All-time great John Henry Lewis for the WORLD L-HW title, he did and took Lewis to task for 15rds (notice the size difference between the two)! could his MW contemporaries have done the same?...(Steele is mentioned here and so is Kid Tunero whom McAvoy spanked)...Bert Gilroy was favorite to beat McAvoy 1938-45. Ernie Roderick, beautiful boxer and great record, one of ONLY 4 fighters to go the distance with All-time great Henry Armstrong during his PEAK run at 3 titles... Roderick 'ducked' Gilroy like the plague from the same 1938-45 and was chosen OVER Bert in 1942 for an Final Eliminator for McAvoys MW title. Bert was 'still' on his 6 yr winning streak and 'still' official challenger to McAvoy since their meeting was called off in 1940 and had not been defended since... btw Roderick won the eliminator in 42 and sat waiting for 3 years till 1945 fighting welters while Bert & Top middles fought each other and in Bert's case L-HWs & HWs, and Roderick got the MW title fight. Freddie Mills World L-HW Champion, fought the great Len Harvey in 1942 for BBBofC version just 4 MONTHS, 4 MONTHS after his victory over McAvoy for the right to do so (the war didn't prevent Mills from his right, did it?) - held that title UNCONTESTED for 8 long years - Bert official challenger and No.1 contender from 1945-48 for Mills' title...Mills get 2 SHOTS to unify world title 1946 & again 48... Bruce Wood**** a great HW champion, destructuve puncher very good boxer and a Big strong man, Bert Gilroy should never have been fighting him in the first place, but fought him TWICE, WHY? Gilroy and his management team Tommy Gilmour Snr and OL' Jim Gilmour were trying desperately to get Bert HIS rightful title shots, Bert took all 3 of the Britain's TOP Heavyweights on in 5 battles and 3 of them ended with question or controversy... proving Berts supperiority among the British MW and L-HWs Marcel Cerdan almost ALWAYS a top 10 all-time great MW, Gilroy, 1947 is given about 10 days to make weight and fight Cerdan, Gilroy was a proper L-HW since 1944 & 'officially' since 45 so he could gain status at L-HW for these title fights that NEVER came! Bert agrees to the contest, again in hope of title recognition and commits 'suicide' in the process Drying-Out, 48 hrs without food and water...John Saxon a repoter writes while Cerdan is dining and making merry Gilroy is not even at the dinner the night before the fight! Ron Olver 33yrs, later in a reflective piece on Bert states "how he made the weight we shall never know... were these men WORLD classed, World Champions or World rated, did they ALL get their chane, are they found in such lists, of course. Try asking Jack Solomons and Ted Broadribb about Gilmours EFFORTS for Bert too meet Lloyd Marshall 1947 after Marshall *%$%-UP Mills...No way that could be allowed, now could it? was Bert Gilroy Britains greatest MW, I would say he's 2cd behind McAvoy, but given the circumstances and what we know he MAY WELL be No.1. is he an All-time great middle, where ever McAvoy is slotted in ACCURATELY & Honestly, you should find Bert either right behind him or just ahead!!! are they/he to be listed among the Top 20-25 MW' of All-time? I can find not much of an argument against! It's a collection of fairy tales: The only top British heavyweight Gilroy met was Bruce Wood**** who stopped him in both their meetings. Sixteen fight Wood**** koed him in 6rds in their first fight.In the second fight Gilroy was on the floor 6 times in the 2 rds the fight lasted before being rescued by the referee. Why shouldn't McAvoy get a world title shot before Gilroy? He was on a 34 bout winning streak apart from one points loss to world class Marcel Thil for the European lhvy title , with half of them inside the distance wins ,and with victories over Harvey, Risko,McCoy,Tunero,all better men than anyone Gilroy ever beat . He was the reigning British and Commonwealth Middleweight Champion. McAvoy would go the distance and lose on points to Lewis for the world title,do the same with Thil for the European Lhvy title.Go the distance with Freddie Mills . Go the distance with Jack Peterson for the British heavyweight title. He had 147 fights lost only 14, 132 wins, 88 kos only being stopped twice once early in his career with a broken nose and once against Mills when he tore a lumbar muscle in his back. His record shits all over Gilroy's Ernie Roderick won the British and European welterweight titles, he won the British middleweight title from Vince Hawkins the guy who beat your grandpa. Roderick conceded 10.5lbs to Hawkins in that one. Roderick had 140 fights and won 112 he was fighting the likes of : Boon Thomas Danahar Kouidiri Villemain Armstrong Hawkins Curvis He was stopped only twice,once by world class Villemain for the European title. Again his record shits all over Gilroy's What Roderick and , McAvoy proved is that when they stepped up to the plate they were equal to the task ,Gilroy never did.
So your saying a fighter no longer a contender, no longer ranked as or near one, on the skids and far from the days of being world class is still such because you call it that. Whoever thought logic is what separated humans from other species never read a boxing post here. Good gravy man.
Yeah, I dont get Jim's logic that if Roderick and McAvoy get credit as world class fighters then Gilroy should get equal or better credit. Those guys had records that were far and away better than anything Gilroy ever compiled. Im still waiting for him to fill in these gaps on missing fights for the nobodys that beat Gilroy or actual details outlining the supposed conspiracy that kept Gilroy from a title shot either at domestic, European, or world level. Whenever you start pressing him for cold hard facts the guy fades away like smoke.
This Gilroy mess has long gotten boring, old, nasty, unneeded, unwanted, and blind as to why some insist on keeping it going. Good grief enough.
I disagree entirely that a former world class fighter is always a world class fighter. Hell, weve seen former all time greats that are so far gone they arent even capable of beating tomato cans anymore.
The skills fade but that status remains. That's why people still face name fighters when far past their best. that's why you feel the Ali fight is even worth mentioning.
They won't have world class skills but they're still a world class opponent because they have fought in that class. Doesn't mean at a declined stage they are amongst the top ten in the world it just means they was once that. Well the person who first spoke about evolution and logic will have been long dead by the invention of the Internet.
People face faded world class fighters to pad their record with a recognizeable name and, as in the case of Ali-Berbick, get publicity that a fight with a higher rated Joe Blow wouldnt garner. Ali was not world class when he fought Berbick and certainly not when he fought Holmes. King Tuts mummy was more of a world class fighter the fight Ali and Holmes fought.
Both Jimmy McLarnin and Fidel LaBarba became world class fighters within a very short period of time. As a result, it is apparent that their series of bouts with each other didn't hinder their boxing careers at all. - Chuck Johnston
I agree with that first sentence. That outlines my whole viewpoint better than I have worded it myself.