What was the character of Jim Jefferies?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Tockah, Jan 21, 2023.

  1. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jeffries had Stanley Ketchel thrown out of his Reno training camp because he said," you've been hanging around with that ******".
     
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  2. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Apologies if my enquiry was confused with the question of Jeffries being stopped earlier - and I do agree with Fitz and Smith in that regard - I think Johnson could’ve stopped Jeff anytime after the 4th round.

    But not impossible Jack could’ve gone balls to the wall from first bell and achieved an even faster KO.

    My actual enquiry was if you had read anything about the fight being a “fix”, at least when it was first set up for San Fran?
     
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  3. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I know some might say Jeffries could’ve just as easily done it to anyone else for a gag, which is possible, - but I never liked the footage of him throwing the medicine ball at and knocking down Bob Armstrong. I know Bob likely agreed to play the patsy, also smiling after the fact, but still…….if anyone, Jeffries should’ve flattened his brother Jack instead..that would’ve been a “hoot”….
     
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  4. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Only what Smith recounted in In This Corner.
     
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  5. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    When former champion Jim Jeffries agreed to fight Johnson, he publicly said his intention was “to win the title back for the white race.” And “I am going into this fight for the sole purpose of proving that a white man is better than a Negro.”
     
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  6. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No doubt re Jeffries’ racist mindset. Not to exonerate him at all on that score but he did claim he was “hounded” back - and after the fact of his defeat, he apparently said words to the effect of “now, maybe, they will leave me alone”.

    He never wanted to face Johnson ever as champ or come backing ex champ - but with sufficient public duress and the right $$$, he hauled himself back in the ring.
     
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  7. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I am going off Jeffries own testimony here.
     
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  8. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And that testimony says," old Bob and I are mates,"or words to that effect?
     
  9. janitor

    janitor Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That is the jist of it.

    It is not uncommon for a friendship to form between a champion and their sparring partner.
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And now you are going to produce the proof to back up your statement?
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    The moral standards of the times were pretty Victorian in nature. It was then very much a culture of high moral character rather than a culture of personality. However, from what I have read the the expectation of the private lives of champion prize fighters was of less interest than say the 1960s…certainly prize fighters were not seen as that wholesome to begin with. but some considerable focus still seemed to be attributed to Johnson’s choice of women. And perhaps this was the starting point for the ridiculous expectations of the heavyweight champion then being seen as an example to the youth?

    I’m assuming there was more overall disapproval on the part of Jack Johnson becoming more than just the black world champion in his weight class than there might have been in other divisions had he lived more respectably?

    Similar to the disapproval of Sonny Liston becoming champion for other reasons.
     
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  12. Pugguy

    Pugguy Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah Choc, there were certainly black champions in the lower divisions, but there were still white folks (and reigning Champs, Corbett, Fitz and Jeffries) who considered the HW Title to be hallowed ground, representative of the best of the best in boxing, and absolutely off limits to black fighters.

    I find people often inadvertently or deliberately include Johnson's less than savory behaviors as a big part of the problem. However, the core issue was simply that Johnson was black and his biggest "crimes" were his skin color, winning the title and his simply choosing to live as any white man would. Certainly, before anything else, when Johnson annexed the title from Burns, the famous author Jack London immediately put the call out of Jeffries to comeback and regain the title for the white race. From that fundamental platform (atop the prejudices Johnson had already endured as a black man in general), Johnson was placed into in a world of rejection, pushbacks and totally unfair treatment.
     
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  13. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Mendoza now has a thread on another Forum about all the fixed fights he says Johnson was in.
    They include bouts with Jim Scanlan,Ferguson, Jeannette, Jim Johnson,Porky Flynn,Simmons, etc he also highlighted Johnson winning 5 fights on fouls as proof his bouts were crooked,and stated Johnson was a dirty fighter.he was dsq'd once in77 fights and that was controversial.lol
     
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  14. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    These stats come from," The Great White Hopes ,"by Graeme Kent.
    Deaths From Fight Riots Caused By Johnson's Victory At Reno.
    NYC 1
    Uvalda, Ga 3
    Little Rock ,Ark2
    Houston , Texas 1
    Omaha,Neb1
    Mounds,Ill 1
    Tyler,Texas 1
    Total 10
     
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  15. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Further info onJeffries not wishing to fight in Reno because of unpaid gambling debts.
    Jeffries had lost $25,000 playing the tables at Reno he then cleared out reneging on his debts.
    When Rickard asked Jeffries why he would not box in Nevada Jeffries admitted what he had done.
    Rickard negotiated a deal with those holding markers on Jeffries ,paying them 50 cents on the dollar, the money to be deducted from Jeffries purse, which after deductions was in the region of $192,000.
     
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