When did boxers become 'skilled'?

That's just a matter of the times. Was Wlad less modern because of his clinching? How about Johnny Nelson? Roberto Duran hit and held a lot too and used very similar mauling grappling strategy.

 

The principles are there. Leaning back hands down/crossed over was something Mayweather enjoyed. Very similar fighters. Just kidding.

 

Matter of the gloves and ruleset and the aspects he chose to "abuse" which goes back to "When did boxers become skilled" if Johnson was champion in an era where anyone could try to do what he did but he was the one at the head of the pack and the champion then how could he not be skilled? Good chance without the rule changes and gloves being altered the top guys today would fight more like Johnson then AJ.

 

Yes, exactly, a matter of the times. That literally supports my assertion Johnson doesn't look like a modern fighter.

A fighter should only be judged relative to their time and Johnson was great. He doesn't look like a modern fighter on film, because the extent of grappling was, as you put it "a matter of times".

Duran was a skilled in fighter, but he didn't grapple anything like Johnson. Again, different times.

Wlad and Nelson held in close to nulify their opponent and force the referee to separate. They didn't hit and hold.

Neither Duran, Wlad nor Nelson resemble Johnson on film, by my eye.

Again, Johnson was great. The sport was different with different rules, it stands to reason that he developed a style that helped him be effective in his time. A very different style to those which fighters develop in an attempt to be effective under modern rules.

 

There were probably years back in the 30s, where some of them could have cracked The Ring's end of year Top-10 lists.

 

The skill level probably peaked in the 1930s and 40s. Particularly the black fighters of that era. Probably the most complete boxers in terms of skill.

They were forged in fire.

 

There have always been boxers who were smart fighters.

That is just on side of human nature.

 

I never said he wasn't skilled I said watching him now, his style is out dated compared to modern era. You asked me to name an old fighter that didn't look modern, so I gave you an example of Jack Johnson. Of course boxing was way different back then, so Johnson used a style that helped him be more effective for his era. But comparing it to modern standards it is very out dated watching him on film. Whether or not he could of altered his style, to be more effective in modern era is another question entirely.

 

Some of those old guys look like beginners. That **** wouldn't fly today

 

there are 10,000 Posts explaining the Problems with OLD Film Quality, Accuracy, Footage and such...

people have walked, talked, shat, F'd and fought the very same then, as now, since the Dawn of Time.

Don't be naive.

 

Yeah... and half of those posts are probably yours!

Do you really believe, that if we had (for example) Ketchel vs Papke filmed in perfect modern HD... we would miraculously see great skills on display?

 

Yes and No, we WOULD See Proper Movement & Timing... we Wouldn't necessarily see Proper Skill.

the Sport DEFO did evolve, from a more mauling wrestling, crappling type of fighting, to a more Skilled Athletic type of fighting by the late 20s and 30s.

So, yes & no, not 'miraculously', but DEFO evolved Athletic Skills by then.

 

Seemed like the 30s and 40s were when there was a big shift to more modern styles.

 

What distinction are you making between Louis and say Holyfield or Wlad when comparing eras and respective skills? To my eye, Louis was far more skilled than Wlad, and a better all around boxer.