When do you think Ali should have called it quits?

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Howard even tells Ali, "you sound tired"

 

Oh, Manilla.

 

That is my take.

To be honest I wish more great fighters were like like Rocky Marciano and left on top with their health even if it knocke 10% off their legacy.

 

He looks and sounds horrible there. Compare that to the wild man he was a mere six years earlier. I thought he already seemed to have lost a gear on the Dick Cavett show in 1975.

 

After the 3rd Frazier fight, and if not then, most certainly after the 2nd Spinks fight.

 

The Rock was way before my time but he seems to be the only one who left on top of his game. Ali was the most recognizable person in the world during the 70's and I think he just couldn't let go. I agree with others and would have liked to have seen him stop for good after Spinks II.

 

With hindsight he shhould of stayed retired in 1967

Realistically after Foreman in 1974, legacy wise (and kind pf helping health wise) he should of left it no later than the Thrilla...

But here is a thought:

Ali came to London in 1986 to help hype Whitherspoon/Bruno... He went to train with Witherspoon and rumours were abound of another comeback!:scaredas:

(Rumour courtesy of the rather excellent Muhammad Ali: The unseen archives (page 350))

 

After regaining his title for an unprecedented third time (a record that remains standing to this day).

 

I have given this matter a great deal of thought over the years, and read widely on the subject.

For the sake of his health, Ali should have retired after Zaire. If you care for Ali as a person as well as a fighter, that is the sane exit point. It would still be a truly amazing career, and Ali would still have left the sport a rich man.

If you are a diehard boxing fan who wants to see one of the great clashes of ring titans, then you could be excused for wanting to see Ali - Frazier III. It no doubt took a great toll on Ali's health ("I felt close to death", said Ali) but it was also Ali's final great performance.

Anybody saying Ali should have fought on after Manilla has either not studied Ali's drastic decline as a fighter from that point on, or is heartless enough to want to see meaningless fights at the expense of a great mans health.

 

Ali's fights after Manilla, and why they add practically zero to Ali's legacy:

Jean-Pierre Coopman: Ali KOs a nice man, but a terrible boxer in an absolutely meaningless fight. Zero added to Ali's legacy.

Jimmy Young: Ali looked really terrible here; slow, overweight and out of shape. Young would have won with a more aggressive attitude. Zero added to Ali's legacy.

Richard Dunn: Ali scores his final knock out against another poor quality opponent. There is so little interest in this pointless fight that Ali literally has to pay for two thousand tickets to be given away so the stadium doesn't look so empty. Zero added to Ali's legacy.

Ken Norton: Ali now back in shape, and so has no excuse for his clearly diminishing skills. Few combinations thrown by Ali. He still manages to give Norton a tough fight and steal a win, but most see the fight as rightfully belonging to Norton. Very little, if anything added to Ali's legacy.

Alfredo Evangilista: Ali wins a boring, pointless bout against very low quality opposition. Zero added to Ali's legacy.

Earnie Shavers: Ali narrowly beats a dangerous contender, not so much with boxing skills but with every ounce of guts, bluff and ringcraft a rapidly fading warrior can muster. Ali takes a horrific beating in the process from one of boxings heaviest hitters. It adds to Ali's legacy for (yet again) proving his durability and courage...but people in the know see that victory is at far too heavy a cost. Ali's physician, Ferdie Pacheco leaves the Ali camp; his conscience preventing him from being party to any more beatings. Teddy Brenner, the matchmaker at Madison Square Garden publically announces he will never sanction another Ali bout (for fears about Ali's health)

Leon Spinks: Ali loses the title to a mediocre novice with only seven fights worth of professional experience. This greatly damages Ali's legacy.

Leon Spinks II: Ali wins a poor fight against a troubled, partying, hard-drinking, drug taking, recently arrested 'champion' who's hardly trained at all. Ali has trained hard, but his skills have eroded further. The key factor to Ali winning is that Spinks goes into the fight with nothing. Zero added to Ali's legacy.

Larry Holmes and Trevor Berbick: You guys don't need me to explain why these two fights detract from Ali's legacy, do you?

So, that is my definitive account as to why Ali should have quit after Manilla at the very latest. Does anyone disagree with my analysis?

 

I agree completely,

At the begining of this thread, I listed the "Thrilla" as the last great performance of Ali's career, and the point in which he should have hung them up.

 

Completely agree Chaney. I do though, think that Ali needed Frazier III to seal the deal on his legacy. Otherwise he'd be 1-1 with Frazier. Having that last great battle and winning on a tko helped him get that super duper respect. AFter that fight he most certainly should have retired, but like a lot of champions (such as Holyfield today) they simply cannot get boxing out of their system. It is who they are and they don't know how to exist without it.

 

I agree with many here, who say after Manila. I just watched that whole fight recently and was reminded of its ridiculous brutality. It was a gutsy, skillful win against a quality and worthy opponent in Frazier. Ali was an old 33 at point and didn't need to take one more punch. His record would have been 49-2.

 

'78, IMO.

 

I think he should have called it quits after Shavers.