When pride died so did the fighters.

I'm sorry if I misled you. I do think the fights have taken a toll. I'm not trying to say his chin is as great as ever, but I don't think it has lost a ton of its quality.

I think that Nog's body has taken a lot of abuse, and it doesn't allow him to get into the shape he needs to be in reliably. I think that his injuries didn't allow him to get into prime shape for Herring, Sylvia, and especially Mir. I think that Nog was in great shape against Couture. I don't think his body allows his conditioning to be as reliable as in the past.

 

OK, I can agree with that. :good

 

Three main reasons, many of which have been touched upon:

1) JUICE. Most of these guys used insane amounts of gear in Pride (just compare the pictures). They were stronger and had more endurance. Coming off that amount of steroid use had profoundly negative effects on the body.

2) SIZE. Most American fighters know how to cut weight, and when the guys from Pride came over, they were much smaller than the people in their respective weight classes.

3) WRESTLING. Most MMA fighters now have amateur wrestling background, which I contend is the best fighting base there is. It's impossibly difficult to deal with for the guys that came over from Japan, particularly when stuffing a shot and then soccer kicking the guy's not an option.

It's far too coincidental to say that they all were way past their prime at the same time following Pride's collapse.

 

Wanderli was on the slide by the time he went to the UFC. The brutal loss v Mirko in the Pride GP was the end for him. He then got Knocked out by Dan Henderson. His punch resistance was gone and he was past it. Not forgetting that in Pride Silva was juicing as well which he couldnt do anymore. Wanderlie was crazy and from what I have read he used to train with HW's and get them to crack him in the head so he could work on recovering quickly after being hurt. That is insane!! There are some fights which change you and you never truly recover from. Silva v Mirko was that fight.

Big Nog is another fighter who was well on the slide. By the time he went to the UFC his body was broken. Just remember it was 2002 when Sapp threw Noguiera around like a rag doll. 6 years later he was in the UFC and people think he was in his prime. No way!!

After Mirko won the Pride GP that was it for him. The ultimate aim was to beat Fedor which he couldnt and the guy just couldnt pull the trigger anymore. Watching him in the UFC and see him not attempt one high kick was embarrasing.

What was Gomi doing in Japan before he went to the UFC? When he lost two on the trot in Sengoku u knew he it was the beginning of the end. What was Kid Dynamite doing in Japan before he went to the UFC? In 2009 he lost twice in MMA and brutally Ko'ed in K-1. Both guys were past it and no longer the stars they were. Made me laugh when people were excited about 'kid' and Gomi going to the UFC. People just didnt know that were the top guys in Japan anymore and I knew they wouldnt do **** in the UFC.

 

I dont thibnk it`s the juice or do you think Lesnar and Carwin( http://www.fighters.com/08/16/shane-carwin-linked-to-nationwide-steroids-conspiracy ) are clean? Big Nog is totally shot, when he fights Schaub you`ll see. And I don`t think he will eprform well after the surgeries he had it will be the same as Wand-Leben

 

its a different type of juice, they develop a permanent tolerance to testosterone, which they cannot use in america since it can be tested for.

 

Really? Wand was shot to bits when PRIDE folded. Matter of fact he wasn't the same after he lost to Hunt and that was 5 years ago.
As for Nog that's not even up for discussion.
And CC was coming off the OWGP but he never adjusted to MMA in the West or the Octagon. That said he's been doing this at a HIGH level in PRIDE (the toughest league in the world at the time with the hardest rule set) and the K-1 since the mid 90's. And that's just his pro career. He has over 25 years of wear and tear on his body. It's only natural that at some time his body would start to fail him.

Now why is there no mention of Shogun Rampage or Silva in this thread. Rampage was coming off two career beat downs in PRIDE and still became the UFC champ. Likewise Nog even in his current state won an Interim title. Silva also wasn't even the top guy in his division PRIDE. Subbed with a heel hook by Ryo Chonan.

 

I don't really understand this thread.

Wanderlei, Big Nog and Crocop are all years and years past their best.

Transitioning from one organization to another isn't the issue.

Wanderlei, Nog and Crocop are all in the exact same boat as the vast majority of guys who are in their mid 30s or older but were in the UFC all along, like Chuck Liddell, Randy Couture and Matt Hughes - ie, they now lose fights they wouldn't have lost when they were in their primes, and they now get stopped where they probably wouldn't have got stopped when in their primes.

It's just age and wear n tear.

 

Aye? :think

 

Boom. Really not anymore complicated than this explanation. :thumbsup

 

Got to agree. He was in wars that I wouldnt wish on anyone.

 

How people dont see this I cant comprehend.
:roll:

 

Yeah like Popkins said if you look at the guys who were belt holders at the same time as the pride guys then you're looking at Chuck, Randy, Sylvia, Arlovski, Hughes, Franklin and Penn. Only Penn and Franklin are still relevant at the top.

 

Different rules. I remember crocop saying he was dizzy after getting those elbows from gabriel gonzaga because he wasn't used to getting elbowed on the ground.

But the others did just fine--anderson silva has been dominating the middleweight division for a while. Rampage won the title, shogun won the title, big nog etc.