When would have been the perfect time for Ali to retire?

Simple, after the Foreman fight. We are talking about best time to retire so he could be healthy right? For me anyway that's what matters, Ali after the Foreman win had established he was a top 5 ATG heavyweight.

 

After the Evangelista fight.Ali never absorbed such a tremendous battering to his flabby fat gut in his entire life.


"It was the closest thing to death I've ever experienced".

 

Yeah if you think ali won it's fine, but I don't.

Shavers is a bad finisher the aforementioned aren't.

Not many people would have lost to spinks in the first place.

Any objective fan can happily score it as a win for pea.

If it's close enough for post manilla to make a difference then it really wouldn't make a difference because it's so minute.

 

after he beat Leon Spinks.

 

either

1971 After the first Frazier fight. (i think he'd probably be 100% healthy and he'd still be considered the greatest by many. He'd be remembered most for his prime years)

or

1974 After regaining the title from Foreman (his legacy of greatness is more secure here, and maybe his chances of being healthy would still be intact)

 

Like many others,I see the 'Thrilla' in 1975 as the perfect moment to have left the scene. As punishing as that fight was for Ali and Frazier,Muhammad may well have been in much better shape had he jacked it in after that.

As far as Muhammad's legacy goes,no subsequent fight adds to it.

 

No he wouldn't.

 

what makes you say that ?

 

I think if he never came back in 1970, and had 1960 - '67 as his entire career, he's have a substantial number of backers who would regard him as the greatest - just as Marciano has (mostly old italian-american men, but anyway).

i guess losing to Frazier in 1971 might tarnish that and reduce it a bit, but not necessarily. he was clearly not the same fighter any more.

 

Gulp! Well, the depth of my boxing knowledge is minuscule compared to McGrain's encyclopedic store, but I'm going to disagree anyway.

On paper, you have a point...those post Manila wins do make Ali's resume look better. But unlike the real old timers, we have plenty of high quality film to judge Ali by. Looking at the films, post Manila Ali doesn't seriously add much at all to how great a fighter he was.

I'm sticking by my analysis on page 3, posts #37 and #38.

All the post Manila opponents were either extremely poor (Coopman, Dunn, Evangilista), or the performances by Ali looked terrible (Young), or the decisions highly contentious (Norton) or the victory came at way too high a cost in health, for the small amount it raised his standing (Shavers).

As for winning the title back a third time, that just shows how crooked boxing is that a virtual rookie pro in Spinks could challenge for the title. They were looking for the easiest fights they could get away with, and it is a disgrace that Ali lost to Spinks. As I said, winning the rematch was down more to Spinks self-destruction rather than Ali recapturing much of his former glory.

On paper, yes, these victories by a rapidly fading Ali do add something. But watching the films, any critical eye should see that Ali should no longer be fighting. He was a ghost of himself. The harbingers of his illness were beginning to appear. He was starting to slurr his words when he spoke. The small amount he added to his (already superlative) resume after Manila, pales in comparison to the damage he was inflicting on himself.

And let's not forget...getting out on the earlier side of 'One fight too many' has helped to make Marciano an ATG. A loss as a last fight or a highly controversial win (like Norton III) is a blot and does not make a great finale to a career.

After Zaire was the ideal exit point for Ali if we care about his health.

Manila was the last sane exit point, the last time we saw Ali as a great fighter...but it came at the cost of a lot of damage to his health.

And that's what this thread is about. It's called 'When would have been the perfect time for Ali to retire?' Not 'When had Ali wrung every last drop out of his aging and ailing carcass?'

 

I was pleased,as a fan,that Muhammad evened the score with Spinks,but winning the title for a third time meant nothing,legacy wise,imo.

Winning the title,for the first time,against Sonny Liston was magnificent. Doing it again ten years later in the Foreman fight was even more magnificent. But the Spinks victory was just a matter of evening the score aginst someone whom he should never have lost to in the first place,even at the age Muhammad was then.

 

I think Ali should have retired when he wanted to retire, which is what he did. It's his life to do with as he pleases.

 

i agree with above.
i thought the damage was caused by certain shots to the back of the head? in which case the damage could have been caused at any time in his career.