Where does Chavez rank among the

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by redrooster, Aug 17, 2007.

  1. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    But that was in the 90's long after the prime of Hector Camacho which doesn't count. Well, maybe to some people it does but not for someone who's seen the best of both. I'm talking about at 130 around early 80's.

    Hector was the man and in the forefront of the obxing scene, but Julio was in his shadow. In the early 90's it was the opposite situation as Hector had dissapeared into near anonymity, his talents all but completely gone by then and actually losing to the likes of Haugen, who was mediocre.
     
  2. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    If Barrera was to beat him ever, it would have been at the period that he beat Hamed and transformed himself into the master boxer he became, not at the time he lost Pac-man, although losing to Pac is not a disgrace by any means. Sanchez, on the other hand, was magic. He would have decisioned Chavez at both men's peak.
     
  3. Bad_Intentions

    Bad_Intentions Boxing Addict Full Member

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    chavez>barrera>morales>the marques bro's
     
  4. la-califa

    la-califa Boxing Addict Full Member

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    A pressure fighter like Nelson gave Sanchez fits. As much as I love Sanchez, He could not hold off Chavez & didn't posses the power to keep Chavez at bay. Barrera & Chavez are both great offensive fighters who love to give and take. But Chavez' chin is the major difference between them.
     
  5. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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    Can someone enlighten me on this supposed schooling.....
    ....when did this exactly take place?
    When, where, and is there video footage of this supposed sparring!

    .....or is this supposed sparring session just heresay from the mouth of Whitaker or somebody in his camp????

    Enlighten me please?
     
  6. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I've heard it said from two sources.

    In one, an English boxing writer called Gavin Evans (who I think now rights for Ring magazine) in an Australian Boxing Publication called "The Fist", said "Even before lifting Olympic Gold, he (Whitaker) outclassed Hector Camacho in sparring." The article he wrote that in was called "The Most-Underrated boxers of All Time". Just if anyone is interested, here is his list:
    1. Ezzard Charles
    2. Pernell Whitaker
    3. Sam Langford
    4. Larry Holmes
    5. Packey McFarland
    6. Charley Burley
    7. Jack Blackburn
    8. Sonny Liston
    9. Owen Moran
    10. Tiger Flowers


    The other source was Emmanuel Steward in "Boxing Monthly" about a year ago. He said:

    "When Whitaker was still an amateur he flew to Detroit and arrived at about two in the morning. He was all jet-lagged and everything, and the next day in the gym he beat the **** out of Hector Camacho, who was at the top of his game.""

    There was a chat with Pernell Whitaker over at Maxboxing.com not too long ago and I asked Pernell about it. Here was the interaction:

    =========

    Manny Steward recently said this in Boxing Monthly Magazine:

    "When Whitaker was still an amateur he flew to Detroit and arrived at about two in the morning. He was all jet-lagged and everything, and the next day in the gym he beat the **** out of Hector Camacho, who was at the top of his game."

    Any truth to that? How did those sparring sessions go? How come you didn't get to fight Hector as a pro?


    Pernell_Whitaker:
    This content is protected
     
  7. Luigi1985

    Luigi1985 Cane Corso Full Member

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  8. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Bear in mind this article was written about 1999. I think it was a good list for its time, but yeah, since then the likes of Charles, Pea, Liston, Holmes, Langford and Burley have got their due respects.

    Fighters like McFarland, Blackburn, Moran and Flowers continue to be underrated though.
     
  9. Luigi1985

    Luigi1985 Cane Corso Full Member

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    Like I wrote, I agree with the likes of Flowers, Moren, Blackburn, etc., but even at 99, Whitaker, Liston, etc. weren´t underrated by the boxing experts, they got/ get the respect they deserve...
     
  10. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What makes you say that? Where (in which publication) did you see the experts rating Whitaker amongst the all time best that was warranted around that time? Are you saying it with anything specifc in mind?

    To give a vague idea, in 1996 Whitaker was rated no. 21 in the last 50 years, with fighters like Mike Tyson, Rocky Marciano, Carlos Zarate, Ike Williams, Alexis Arguello, Julio Cesar Chavez and Ruben Olivares ranked ahead of him.

    Does that sound fair?

    I can't see how his stock would have arisen all that much within a few years when he lost controversially to DLH, tested positive to coke and lost to Tito during that time. I think Whitaker was underrated until some time after his retirement when people started finally taking stock of how good he really was.
     
  11. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Chavez is my #1 all-time for Mexican pros in terms of accomplishments and longevity.
     
  12. divac

    divac Loyal Member Full Member

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  13. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    At the end of the day it's sparring, and sparring and fighting are somwhat different things, so even if it is true, you can only attach so much importance to it. But this sounds like it was no Spadafora-Mayweather match. As Steward said, Camacho was at the top of his game. I take it that means he wasn't coming in like Mayweather did for the Spadafora fight not having trained for a while.

    In any case, I think Whitaker would beat Camacho no matter where or when they fought. Pernell was just more tenacious, and I think he'd press the fight and force Camacho to fight him like he did to Buddy McGirt. Camacho would probably oblige for a while too, for he probably wouldn't respect Pernell's power all that much. In that time he would get a lesson on infighting and bodypunching, until he'd slown down a tad and Pernell would pick him apart on the outside in the second half of the fight.
     
  14. Sonny Carson

    Sonny Carson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    He was the greatest Mexican fighter ever even though I think Sanchez would have beat him. Sanchez could outbraw and outbox him.
     
  15. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I hate to dissagree with my good friend Scientist but I remember a report in a publication around '85 that says just the opposite that the match was stopped to save Pernell. Even if true Pernell was little more than a 4 round prelim fighter and Hector a two time world champion. It would make sense that Hector with his experience might manhandle him and no one could hope to match the speed of Camacho.