He was devastating. Unique, crushing power in both hands. Pretty skilled, with a jab, combination- and ring-cutting ability, punch variation, and a good heartbeat. He is my 6th head-to-head heavyweight. I believe he could catch up to and pound many, many fighters throughout history, and, when George hit them, they had to fall.
I agree, he is hard to rate IMO. In his brief "prime", he had two eye-popping wins over Frazier and Norton (two Hall of Famers) but also two very embarassing losses to Ali and Young. He was both extremely talented and extremely flawed. I'd rate him above Liston and Tyson though. His win over Frazier was considerably bigger than any win either of them had, and he showed more determination and resilience in coming back to win a title again than either of those two had.
I think he is very hard to rate head 2 head as well. Yes, his wins over Frazier and Norton is awesome, but he lost against the two most skilled opponents he faced. Ali, ok, but Young? His ineffectiveness against both of them really poses questions. Even Peralta gave him some trouble. There's a lot of talk about Frazier not faring well against quick starting punchers, but how about Foreman against slicksters? The problem is that he didn't face enough quality opponents in his prime for one to really get a handle on him. His best achievements is equal to any HW's, though, IMO.
On my all time list, I have him the #5 heavyweight of all time. I have him behind 1.Ali, 2.Louis, 3.Marciano, and 4. Jack Johnson.
i would say the comeback put him at 7 for me..before the comeback 11-15ish the comeback is huge for me
Great list Holmesjab. People give marciano his fair due accomplishment wise, but many modern boxing fans underate him in a h2h sense. why? I dont know, marciano looks special talent on film to me. Otherwise I wouldnt put him anywhere near my top 5. I go back and forth on foreman, it depends on the mood of the day. I do believe you can rate him anywhere from 3rd-12th depending on how highly u rate the moorer win at age 45 and depending on how you view the young loss and his lack of beating depth and struggles vs boxers.
i believe if he fought all the greats 100 times each he would win more than 50% against all of them.. in that regard you could argue hes number 1. For the record i dont.. ive got him at #4 behind ali, louis and lewis
Very difficult guy to rate, if ratings are your thing. He made an incredible comeback and beat Frazier and Norton with a monstrous display of power and oddly, accuracy. These things should catapult him into a top 10 or top 12 list. But then again, we have other points to consider. He had a very good jab and great uppercut, but he fought like a barroom brawler in many of his fights. He was honestly reaching back behind him with punches against Roman. It's positively laughable. In many of his earlier fights, he was unbelieveably wild and rather robotic as well. Against Ali, it was his own lack of a boxing brain that cost him that fight. He kept swinging for the fences until pooped. I mean really, that's very basic amateur stuff there. Yes, he had faith in his power and thats fine, but that really tells me he was relying on one specific asset - something 70's George leaned upon very heavily. Then we also have to consider that boxers will usually do very well with George. Ali. Young. Holmes would have done a number on him, imo. It's not really a point one can dispute - you give George angles, keep away and keep a jab in his face and he's beatable. A simplification sure, but a point worth mentioning. Good boxers were George's kryptonite. In addition, for a guy with such a long combined career, he oddly faced few true punchers. Lyle was a good puncher, but not a bona fide bomber. Cooney with the left was, although he was arguably even more shopworn than George when they fought. Briggs? Heavy hitter. Morrison too, although his gameplan was more about boxing than brawling that night. Bert Cooper could swat of course, but he was a shell of a shell when George beat him. So that's only five guys, maybe two of which were pretty much prime at the time when they fought him, who were big punchers. Just something to think about... Lastly, while his comeback was undeniably impressive (fantastic is a better word) he was carefully marketed and managed and always fought guys that he could beat. (Evander excluded.) He carefully navigated his way around the really dangerous guys at the time...Lewis, Bowe, Tyson and Ruddock to name four. To his credit, he indirectly admitted as much - at least as far as Lewis and Ruddock were conderned. Still, knocking out a young, strong guy like Moorer was a great achievement and to have a genuine puncher like Morrison grabbing him for dear life was equally impressive. He also put up a spirited fight against Evander Holyfield. If I were to draw up a list, I honestly would not know where to put him. Clearly he doesn't cut the top 5 though...not for me.
interesting how you have tunney beating foreman holmesjab. tunney never fought a 6'3 220lb fighter before, let alone a killer like foreman so it would be a big test to tunney. we dont know how good he is vs big men
I definitely believe that he belongs in the top 10. Where? I don't know. I guess I will finally have to sit down and think out my own top ten list one of these days.