Which better: ring belt or lineal?

Panama Lewis and Luis Resto have not helped a fighter kill himself for the last 23 years... Perhaps they should get their licences back?

You can forgive, but never forget... The Ring under Fleischer and then with the US Boxing Championships tainted itself forever.

 

Death is permanent.

Ring screwed up and has since done a decent job of accounting for itself. You cannot forever taint yourself in those types of situations. Someone who kills someone will have always killed someone. An organization can change and make amends especially when given a new direction by new people.

That's like saying that if a football team was bad 20 yrs ago they will be bad now. It doesn't make sense.

 

More often than not, the Ring Belt IS the Lineal Belt. However, for those few cases where it isn't , the lineal belt is better.

 

You started off with "what am i going on about" with Ring not being lineal. My point was you have previously tried to assert that PBF was Lineal at 35 and Ring was the one who deemed it so, between PBF and JLC. Hence Ring doesnt equal lineal!! Its merely civil discussion, it would better if we kept it that way, would you not agree?? I'm fairly certain you would.

As to you're point in stripping, I'm not sure I understand it clearly. The only way to leave the best fighter out of a unification process is if that fighter is the WBO Champ, because by Ring/accepted definition its the BA, BC, BF. So at 68, Kessler could unify WITHOUT FIGHTING Calzaghe and would indeed leave the regarded "best SMW" out. Which is one of the examples of why I favor including the BO. If that's done, I cant see any way the best man is left out. You could make a case for some rising fighter who had yet to win a belt perhaps, but his path would be clear, fight the UNDISPUTED fighter. Perhaps capturing a stripped title helps get that recognition and pushes his case to fight the real champ.


As for the LINEAL process to replace vacancies, the 1,2 of whomever, wherever, would be in the unification process especially, if the BO included. Ultimately, UNDISPUTED means more IMO.

As for Czone?? Yes, I have had debates with them prior to anything between you and I, and as stated, only brought the site into the picture to refute any claim of PBF being Lineal at 35. I find it hilarious that the same writer whom I debated, and whom writes for the site, stated PBF was Lineal at 35 in a article of his own which, you posted to refute my point. Ring says he was, so it was? But it still isnt seen that way, because overall views of that site disagree with Ring and apparently HIM as well It's the kind of catch 22 mentality that exists in the site. Though I'll say again, i respect that writer even though I find his/their stance at odds with each other and UNCLEAR and I still assert PBF wasnt lineal at 35. As we know, they dont define the mysterious 1,2 process. It seems you are now touching on other flaws after further examination. Could it be????? Floyd's held only 1 LINEAL TITLE???:rofl Ahh...the humanity It keeps getting BETTER:yep They gave nelson credit in 1996, for beating Ruelas or Leija, not sure which.

Another example with Calzaghe. One could suppose it's easy to claim what you like, when the 1,2 process isnt defined clearly, I suppose.

I've always said that Lineal is a notch above an org strap, IMO, but I'll take unification any day, it's more meaningful. Also, they'll have a vacancy replaced, one way or the other THROUGH THAT PROCESS:good

 

Doesn't have to have an American passport. The important thing is that there has to be American interests involved. In other words someone fighting out of the US, managed in the US etc. The Ring is not pushed by fighters themselves to do these things. Fighters rarely have or use those tactics... their managers and promoters do.

 

The issue at hand of leaving out the best fighter during unification involves other fighters besides the WBO champion. Currently, most consider Casamayor the true champion of 135 due to his win over Corrales. But he was stripped by the WBC for trying to unify. So if someone unifies all 4 belts, they would never fight Casamayor. To me, that taints the process.

I said that PBF was considered Lineal because of articles and sources I had read that considered him such, and those had nothing to do with the Ring title. At the time of our original debate, I couldn't find the articles. I have since found 2 of them and they claim he was lineal. You have sources that claim he was not champion. Obviously we also have different beliefs in the process which grants the title. So we are never going to agree on this and their seems to be different sources claiming different things (I found one that claimed he was 135 and 147 champ, but not 130...that's what prompted me to look at the 130 title on CBZ). In all honesty, I am beginning to doubt the validity of the Lineal titles altogether....perhaps the Undisputed title and the Ring titles are the only ones I will focus on until there can be a clear answer on the lineal titles.

 

That's kind of a reach.

 

I think that unifications only play into the alphabet organization's hands at the moment. These organizations will still have different top contender's, and still force title splits. Some will even add more champions, like the WBA, in the same weight division as the unified champion. These organizations should rank the title holders of other organizations as contenders. This way, maybe unified champs could occur more often.

http://trueboxingchampions.com/ is a site that may be on the right track. I just wish they would update more often. If enough people got behind an organization like this, I think that things could change for the positive.

As far as lineal titles go, I don't think they mean all that much. Sometimes the champ retires, and a new champ has to be appointed. That kills the person who beat the person, who beat the person, kind of thing.

 

Ok. I now understand where you're coming from with stripping and agree that it's yet another way for the ORGS to prevent any form of CLARITY. Obviously, they cant have that It's much harder to pull corrupt or whatever type of **** they want, when the public has a defined Champ in front of them. It's yet another issue POINTING towards REFORM being the only way to IMPROVE BOXING!!! I hate to use the term "save" because the greatness of the sport has endured over a century and nearly every form of BULL**** and CORRUPTION possible and is still ALIVE and fighting:bbb vs :bbb .

So that leaves me, to say THE BEST FIGHTING THE BEST is the only mantra that will PROVE OUT a true and respected ATG Champion. Unfortunately, given the landscape many fighters will opt to play a long with the ORG's and their ****, TO GET PAID. When confronted with Money vs REspect?? Respect will most often take the BACK SEAT!! Hence PBF SYNDROME, cherry pick, talk ****, get paid, and duck as much outside the ring as you do INSIDE:good A real Champion should seek out the top fighters regardless of belt.

Personally, I DETEST SUCH ****!!! I cant for the life of me, figure out why the powers that be, cant come to the realization that running things RIGHT, is far better and MORE PROFITABLE in the long run for everyone involved. Guy's like Floyd who claim to "be the best" only make a MOCKERY of true greatness that has littered the history of this grand sport. Kind of like claiming to be LINEAL and flat out ducking another titlelist WHO HANDED YOU YOU'RE ASS ON A PLATTER for calling out and disrespecting him in the gym.:-( :-( Ring was the one who deemed PBF vs Castillo the resultant Linear Champ, there isnt any other credible or possible source for such info:good


As for LIneal?? I truly dont care if we agree on the process. What most like about the idea is it represented a way to track back to the day's when there was ONLY 1. One real Champion is what the public seeks and said Champion defending against the best challengers ensures that greatness continues. I always said UNIFICATION was more important and of higher honor and nothing to date has changed that. You have however pointed out yet another way to **** UP that process through "stripping ahead of time":-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(


As for Ring??? Again, I like Ring but I still have problems handing "control" to any one organization that ISNT IN CONTROL of what happens in the sport and cant impose any regualtion of such. To me, they are just another ORG, perhaps the most respectable, but NOT THE BE ALL. There will always be too much **** happening when the "respected source" cant regulate.

Not sure if you caught tonights FNF in which studio host Brian Kenney sat down with Marvin Hagler and Oscar de La Hoya and posed the question of Ring belt legitimacy. DLH sang a splooging, glowing review of Ring Belt and Hagler said If there's another belt out there, I'm gonna want that too. So, the picture is as CLEAR AS MUD. Side Note: when asked of DlH's plans at 47, he said "my wife will decide what happens next and I'm waiting for some chips to fall in place " His wife??:rofl :rofl Much respect to the lady, but I wasnt aware that she was that much of aficianado:hey Also when asked about a rematch with PBF?? DLH said I'd fight him again, if we could fight in a phone booth Credit to Kenny who said "the test will come for you Oscar when you promote a fight that carrys' an ORG belt and whether you trump it as a world championship fight." Oscar basically said he would because it's still important to the fighter. So much for CLARITY!!!:yep :yep :yep

 

Replacements werent appointed so to speak, they were either the #1,2 fighters squaring off with NO CLEAR WAY TO TRACK OR KNOW who those top fighters were or UNIFIED CHAMPIONS.

There seems ONLY 1 guarantee, ****ing up the sport of boxing for profit and petty infighting reasons is the way it goes. The current culture is ****ed and dangling the $$$$$$$$$ opportunities is the way to railroad fighters into playing a long.

Unless, there's major reform?? The BS will continue and the growth and greatness of this sport will continue to be stifled.:-(