In the light of the lively discussion on Ali v Marciano, I should like to ask which of the heavyweight CHAMPIONS, past and present beat Marciano? I'll make a tentative list of my picks ,all choices to be PRIME. Ali Dempsey Louis Liston Foreman Lewis Bowe Johnson Tyson Holmes Toss up 50/50's Jeffries Holyfield W Klitschko Tunney Fitzsimmons Charles Walcott Frazier V Klitschko
The ones I would make clear favourites are: Dempsey Louis Liston Foreman Tyson Lewis One non champion who I would give a good chance is Sam Langford.
Rocky never gave us anything suggesting that he could beat real big guys, did he ? So Lennox, Bowe, Wlad and Holmes, I cannot see Rocky beating those. I would make him a favorite against Frazier and Tunney.
Of course, you'de have to position EVERY fighter into a proper era comparison, with all the particulars that go with it. What would a prime 2000 Rock look like? What would a 1921 prime Frazier look like? What would a 2000 prime Dempsey look like? What would a 1921 prime Lewis look like? What would a 2000 prime Louis look like? You, quite simply, CAN'T ******* compare fighters from different eras!!!
I think there are a few champions who should start Favorite over Rocky but I would still give marciano a chance over them. Prime Joe Louis, prime Ali. Perhaps others.. Marciano was not invincible. He would get beat, of course he would, but he would absolutely give whoever beats him a life and death war because he was a great fighter. Regardless of size, Rocky would not be easy meat for anyone in history who might beat him. Same for all great fighters in their primes on their best day, they all give life and death losing. Nobody wipes the floor with Ali, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson either although hypothetically they all get beat too in certain fantasy match ups.
I'll stick to lineal champs and skip the alphabet guys and 80's forward contenders as well .. Beat him w confidence: Johnson Louis Liston Ali Foreman Holmes Tyson Bowe Holyfield Lewis Vitali Wlad Toss Ups Fitz Dempsey Tunney Charles Frazier I think Langford would have defeated him as well .
Dempsey, Tyson and Lennox Lewis. 'If you locked all the heavyweight champions inside a room and told them to fight to death, the last one to walk out of that room would be Rocky Marciano'. (Bert Randolph Sugar)
I don't think that Sugar would be right. In fact the others would probably pick on the 'little' guys like Marciano first.
Not sure what is your point mate, because let's be honest, the 'argument from ignorance' is used a lot in classic fights discussions and who is the greatest discussions in general in order to make a point. If I suggest that Roy Jones Jr would beat (insert a ATG here) the first thing I would read when quoted was that he didn't prove that or something. ps- I'm not saying you do or would do that btw, just using it as an example of how the argument from ignorance is very prevalent in our world. If I know what you meant there, you have a point actually in my way to see Boxing, it's more about me not seeing that Rocky had enough to surpass the (huge) size disavantage and stop a real Big guy.
The fact that he didn’t beat many big heavyweights, doesn’t mean that he would have lost to them, it means that we don’t know one way or the other. He might theoretically have demolished them like Jack Dempsey.