Which Muhammad Ali peformance was better?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SlyCoop, Mar 16, 2011.

  1. groove

    groove Well-Known Member Full Member

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    williams wasn't shot 3 months before the fight. his performance v williams was his best.
     
  2. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Try two years. He was shot in 1964. Still, in essence you're right. Williams was only a shell when he met Ali. London was at least a healthy specimen.
     
  3. SlyCoop

    SlyCoop Member Full Member

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    The combination he put on London in the third round was amazing his fastest.
     
  4. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Some great articles in Sports Illustrated December 5, 1966 about the
    Muhammad Ali vs. Cleveland Willams Heavyweight Championship Fight.

    More than just injuries bothering Cleveland Williams.
    Money issues from his former manager, and legal papers filed, garnishing his
    fight purse.

    Besides his physical liabilities, his mental attitude was not in that fight.
    He fought like a zombie, and just went through the motions.

    At 33 years of age, he had just $14.73 to his name, 6-weeks before the fight.
    The guy was working on a farm in Texas, for $1.00 / Hour.
    He had a .357 magnum bullet in his abdomen, and only one kidney. And
    weak muscles in his leg, as a result of the gunshot wound.

    Though Muhammad Ali was at his physical peak, his performance was against
    a shell of once dangerous fighter.

    His bout with Muhammad Ali in the Houston Astrodome was later called 'The Massacre'.
     
  5. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    There is little question regarding the fact that he was a poor version of himself ... it is often over looked because he still was an impressive physical specimen ... in reality he was one of the 1060's Ali's poorest title opponents, right up there w London ... makes sense ...
     
  6. Kalasinn

    Kalasinn ♧ OG Kally ♤ Full Member

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    Sorry, i forgot the timing of the shooting.
    I see you were correct out the date, he took a 17months layoff after the Sep '64 Billy Daniels fight, so his recovery period must have fell in there.

    Regardless, the .357 bullet almost killed him, & he had to build up all his muscle again from being a skinny dying man.
     
  7. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Still, the fight did exceptionally well in the Houston Astrodome,,,

    35,460 attended. The largest indoor crowd for a fight.
    Muhammad Ali pulled in a nice $222,927 just from the 'live gate' alone.
    50% of the gross.

    ABC-TV paid $75,000 for the broadcast rights (broadcast on Television 2-weeks later).

    A no-harm no-foul fight. As many believed that Muhammad Ali gave Cleveland Williams
    a Title shot to help him get out of debt.
    If compassion was part of this, to help out a fellow fighter, than it was a good cause
    bout.

    In his 4-comeback bouts, Cleveland Williams did struggle in 3 of them,
    W KO 1 vs Ben Black
    (Before knocking out Ben Black, Williams was staggered badly from the first punch Ben Black landed. Out on his feet, Williams landed a wild and desperate left hook that floored Black.
    Black got up, and nailed a wide open Williams with a right hand that
    staggered him and left him defenseless, forcing the referee to give Williams a
    standing 8-count, which saved him.
    Black, while attacking a hurt Williams, left himself wide open, and Williams nailed him with a home-run left hook that knocked out Ben Black. One of the wildest 1st Rounds ever.)
     
  8. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It was a lot longer than 3 months mate
     
  9. kickbxn5

    kickbxn5 Active Member Full Member

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    I'd say Ali vs Williams. Anytime you can drop a man, damaged or not, while you are moving BACKWARDS that says alot about yourself.
     
  10. SlyCoop

    SlyCoop Member Full Member

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    No heavyweight in history beats either version.
     
  11. SlyCoop

    SlyCoop Member Full Member

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    Safe to say though that these to fights are 2 of Ali's best performances. Skill wise.
     
  12. yancey

    yancey Active Member Full Member

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    Ali's best career win was the Thrilla in Manila. That fight forced him to dig the deepest. Should have retired right there.

    Pre-exile his best win was Liston I.

    Patterson had severe back trouble against Ali in their 1965, not that he had much chance anyway.
     
  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And it's a kind of underrated in technical and tactical terms. Ali perfomed beautifully without much legs to rely on.
     
  14. ThinBlack

    ThinBlack Boxing Addict banned

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    The fight against Cleveland Williams.A Hint of what could've been.
     
  15. jowcol

    jowcol Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ali was approaching his all-time best come Williams who, as you said, had a bullet in him. London? Simply a tomato can that any contender could have feasted on. You're basically asking which piece of dead-meat was Ali more impressive against...does anyone care? Next thread....