Who decked Bernard Hopkins?

Just so you know I knew Lewis was involved. Here's an except from a discussion I was having four days ago:


"Boxing News had Mercado the winner and The Ring (who are never biased to Yanks...ahem) wrote that Hopkins was "Lucky to get a draw". Understand? The promotion was put together by Don King and Butch Lewis. King manufactured one of his infamous draws, hence the rematch."


:good

 

WRONG....

Conteh, your a good poster, but not when its about Hopkins. You slight EVERY thread about him to somehow be in a negative light.

The Mercado fight was a draw...My question is....have you seen the fight?

Did you notice the **** being thrown at Bernard in between rounds? The literally HUNDREDS of people screaming that they were going to KILL him if he won (in spanish)? The ridiculously overmatched ref?

And still it was close....and arguably a win for Bernard.

That fight was a disgrace. An absolute disgrace. The paralells to the Holt - Torres fight are astounding....live cash betting going on IN THE STANDS....choas throughout the arena....etc.

And when the rematch was ordered on more "stable" grounds...what happened...Bernard blew him out the ring.

I have no idea how you blindly attack Hopkins at every turn...like I said, in other posts, you tend to have a good outlook on things...but with stuff like this....

:huh

 

Possibly true. But I like to redress the balance. There's too much American nuthuggery around these parts and I'm here to give the other side of the argument. People just read a write up in KO or Ring (i'm talking about other instances now) and say "yeah, he was robbed, etc".


Yes, Hopkins did beat him up in the return. So what? Mercado should never have been anywhere near a world title chance in the first place. He wasn't a top quality fighter by any stretch. Well, he was ok in such a poor era at 160 I suppose.


Yes, I have seen the fight (like I told you the other day), a lot of this stuff happens when you go into another guy's hometown/country. It seems that it's only unfair when it happens to Yanks.

ps. Do you know anything about this judge that was beaten? I'd certainly like to know more. Source, etc? And if so, why was he beaten to hand out a draw? :huh

 

Which part of my quote that you quoted was wrong by the way?

 

Eh, poor choice of words I guess. I meant more of your stance on the fight being wrong.

As to your last reply, I TOTALLY agree that there is an American Media bias....but to the same extent, and probably an indirect result of it, there is a TREMENDOUS ANTI-AMERICAN bias going on....and by attempting to knock a fighter like Hopkins down a peg, just because of the American media unfairly hypes their own fighters, yet pretty much ignores great non-American fighters perpetuates that ANTI-AMERICAN BIAS. Its not adding balance, its adding more ignorance.

Hopkins has one of better resumes of active fighters. He has accomplished far more then most active fighters. Head to head he would be a hell of a fight for ANY of the great MWs of all time. His longevity is matched by FEW in the history of the sport. ETC.

He isnt an American hype job. There are plenty of those to knock (as well as some non-American hype jobs nowadays.... ) without having to attempt to discredit an ATG.

Its just frustrating to read over and over. Especially considering in other posts, I think you are a fine poster....

:good

As for the judge thing...I read about it some time ago, but dont know much on it (not even going to pretend to). I will take a look around.

But even looking at the scores you can sense something wasnt right about the judging. One guy has Bernard far ahead....one has it a draw and one has Mercado far ahead (the one from Ecuador I believe...tho dont quote me on that).

But again, before the Holt fight, this fight was one of the worst I have ever witnessed. I mean, they had soldiers with FREAKING submachine guns patroling the stadium, and even they couldnt keep it civil.

It isnt about American fighters getting a fair shake in other countries...its any in my eyes. What is fair is fair...and Hopkins then, like Holt recently definately had alot more than just the other fighter in the ring to deal with.

 

I can agree here. I have actually been impressed with him since he moved up to 175, probably more than I ever was. He's beaten better guys than he ever did at 160 for me.

Again, yet more bias here mate. You dismiss the judge that voted for Mercado as basically a 'cheat', yet say nothing about the American judge that voted for Hopkins. :huh That's what I'm rallying against- constantly. If it was such a 'homer' why not give it to Mercado? Two of the judges were Yanks. The other one voted a draw. Why was this?


Also, a point i'd like to make. Take your stance and comments on Monzon the other day: "Hometown draws" you said. When in reality virtually all his draws were in the other guy's hometown, yet you don't want to research this because, well, he's not American I guess. You just want to assume they weren't on the level. Also, Monzon faced and intimidating atmosphere, probably more than Hopkins if we're judging noise levels especially, when he fought for the world title against a much better fighter than Hopkins did. Result? He knocked the ****er out. Forget the judges. Hopkins couldn't do that, or even come close to it. And Monzon was a guy CONSTANTLY defending his title away from home, something Yanks find 'unfair' when they have to.


ps. Hopkins himself said he "thought he won by A POINT". So he was hardly convinced himself.

 

Hey, thanks for that. We're lucky you came along. :hi:

 

Well lets say theoretically they get the other two judges on side, with a draw from the other.

Happy now?

 

That is fair I guess....but one question. If Calzaghe beats Kessler (which I think he will) and he and Hopkins fight...with Bernard winning (which I think he can), will you finally put all this anti-Hopkins stuff to bed? And if he then moves to HW and fights a winnable fight (vs Sultan or Maskaev..tho Peter is going to end that chance...but), then will you FINALLY lavish some praise on the guy?

(its sad that a fighter that has done as much as Bernard has would have to pull all that off just to win over a blinded fan like yourself, but...)

Again selective reading from you. I NEVER said the other judge was a cheat. I said that there was DEFINATELY something fishy going on with the scores for 3 judges to ALL see the fight so differently. I never said the American judge had it right....or the other judge had it wrong. I only pointed out the WIDE difference in the scoring.

My problem was never with the one judge only. It was with the fact that two judges had it SOOOOOO wrong. One far in favor of Mercado (which anyone who saw the fight knows was wrong) and one far in favor of Hopkins (which anyone who saw the fight also knows was wrong).

As I have already stated, I scored the fight a draw....so really that statement was off base. Read my post next time please.

More of your selective reading. I stated that in fact Monzon HAD been on the **** end of the stick on quite a few hometown draws....BUT, also had benefitted from some as well. Your constant twisting of my views on whatever subject it may be is ridiculous.

And that ANTI-AMERICAN BULL**** rears its ugly head again.

So I suddenly dont want to research something due to the fighter not being American? **** OFF!

Go look at this lists of my favorite fighters current and all time. I LOVE Calzaghe (not american), Vazquez (not american), Benn (not american), Jackson (not american), Monzon (not american...and I probably know more about his career than you...), Chava (not american), Finito (not american), etc.

Again, you not only perpetuate that anti-american sentiment, but you blindly toss it out there when it isnt warrented.

You have to be kidding me?

So Hopkins didnt knock him out, that must mean he was lesser of a fighter?

:huh

And because he fights exclusively (tho had fought a few times abroad before the Mercado incident, where as he stated that he actually feared for his life) in the US, he is a lesser fighter?

:huh

So Monzon faced an entire arena screaming that if he won, he wouldnt make it out of there ALIVE? He sat in the corner and had beer bottles (not cans or cups...****ING BOTTLES) and other debris thrown at him in between rounds?

Noise levels that were worse.....maybe. Atmosphere more intimidating....sorry, no.

And since when does a fighter from the US (where the bigger money fights are for the most part) have to go and defend his title abroad? That doesnt make any sense.

And I thought it was a draw (but as I SAID, you could make an arguement for Hopkins barely winning easier than for Mercado)...so WHAT is your point?

:huh

Again, you need to get off of this anti-american kick. It clouds your judgement and makes you look like a jackass. Read my ****in posts next time, rather than thinking I dont agree with you because I am american. Grow the **** up.

 

Wanna bet?

 

You think this is an unusual split:

114-111
114-116
113-113

???

Because scorecards like that appear every weekend.

 

At the time it did, yes. Hagler and Monzon in the same situation realised that the judges may not give them a fair shake (oh and the atmos Marv fought in was quite intimidating to say the least) and ripped the crown away from the champ. Mercado was nowhere near Benvenuti or Minter's class. I'd be surprised if he was in Mark Kaylor's class actually.

 

What?

Vcash....

Seriously tho, even if you do trump my knowledge of him a bit (which you may or may not...I never claim to be the foremost expert of everything boxing), I know enough where I can intellegently argue about his career and comparisons of his career to that of others...without spouting some nationalistic bull****.

Monzon was phenominal. I have him third all time at MW (behind Hagler and Hopkins....barely...based on resume, accomplishments, head to head, longevity, etc.). I always felt he could have been even better for an even longer time if it werent for the lifestyle he led (but then the question begs to be asked "Would he have been the same fighter if he had not lived like he did?"...but I digress). Truely one of the greats.

But I will always take umbridge with someone questioning my knowledge or my objectivity due to where I was born or reside.