Who had the better resume when undefeated? Brian Nielsen or Deontay Wilder

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, May 22, 2025.


  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Yes agree
    I am missing much of the context, but so are you in your response



    Yes Holmes was much more experienced

    I was talking about when both fought their respective opponents and Ortiz was having only his first world title fight at a much older age than when Holmes first contested, so agree Holmes was far more experienced and also that he likely had more miles on the clock

    Yes I would agree that is most likely but also say Holmes was also by far the greater fighter of the two, more experienced,


    I do agree, and have made that argument before myself.
    With that in mind I think it's also fair to say Holmes was still boxing well at that age



    I can't speak for everyone and don't try to.
    I'm not disputing how you may have scored a fight, but that would also show how good Holmes still was. As you say you can't compare ages even though that is exactly what you have done here and above to suit the context you are looking at

    I have read many things like that with so many boxers where there are conspiracies.
    Maybe some things are true. I don't know, but seeing as I don't really recall Nielsen being pushed into the mainstream too much am not sure what would have been to gain if all the above
    Who knows? Certainly not me. I just go by what can be proven where possible
     
  2. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm not missing any context all you said in your original response was "Ortiz was a similar age to Holmes" which has absolutely 0 context at all and I'm the one who provided the context not you.

    You also keep saying Holmes won "4 more fights" again context is needed.

    Holmes got a gift decision against Maurice Harris that no one thought he won.

    He beat a couple of old shot fighters who were from his era Bonecrusher, Weaver, and then a side show event vs Butterbean.

    The difference is Ortiz was a top contender and a very relevant fighter when Wilder beat him.

    Holmes was completely shot and no longer relevant as a fighter.

    Plus Wilder stopped Ortiz twice where as Nielsen got a gift decision vs Holmes that pretty much no one thought he won.

    So anyone with any common sense knows beating an undefeated top contender Ortiz is a considerably better win.

    You're saying I'm using context to suit my argument ? No you're the one doing that with actually very little context/relevance to anything you're saying.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2025
  3. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Please read where the comparisons were up to ie before draws and losses
    Wilder had only beaten Ortiz once.

    Now you are trying to use certain arguments to suit
    Atm any fighter in the current top 10 is relevant in that sense, but I would arguably possibly still favour a retired Wladimir Klitschko to possibly beat some of them.
    Now Wladimir has been retired for 8 years, lost his last 2 fights and would not be considered relevant in the sense you are saying, but I would still rate it as a fair win if an undefeated contender beat him and likely higher than perhaps Ortiz due to previous achievements even though Wladimir would have first fought nearly 30 years previously.
    Some fighters that enter in the top 10 don't always do as much as some that don't in some occasions
     
  4. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No you're using arguments to suit the thread you made bringing up notable names with 0 context about what stages of the careers those fighters were at.

    But if you wana hype up getting a gift decision against an almost 50 year old Holmes who was totally shot and create some mental gymnastics to compare it with Ortiz go ahead.

    Not going to waste my time so goodbye.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2025
  5. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    I have openly said I suited myself to a degree on this thread. Most do. That's what often makes a good debate
    I just pointed out that I think you have done similar and gave you an example above that the context I feel you gave wasn't as thorough as I think you felt

    There isn't any mental gymnastics
    Tell me Ortizs top wins at that time?
     
  6. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I always viewed Nielsen’s career as a gimmick and not serious, it really is damning to Wilder that it can plausibly be compared to his own career.
     
  7. fencik45

    fencik45 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    nielson, and it isn't close. wilders best name was a shot liahkovich, who took a blatant dive.
     
  8. fencik45

    fencik45 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    neither ones career is much different than furys.