I did look up one thing, Joe Frazier is listed as the 39th hardest P4P puncher of all time and Mr Williams is 10 places behind him. I think it's fair to say Joe Frazier would likely be the hardest puncher Sonny Liston would ever face.
It certainly isn't. I could also say that Liston quite likely was the hardest puncher of the 60's, since I think it's between them two and that there isn't that much in it. I just think that Williams looked the slightly harder puncher in their two fights, from memory. But Liston put his punches together better.
Definitely, definitely, definitely OK to vote for Frazier here for that booming left hook at its best. No doubt about that, it's not a bad vote.
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. Personally I think Frazier was a grinder who wore down his opponents with an incessant barrage of hooks which he could sustain for 15 rounds.
I simply feel we need examples of Williams power. It's not okay to base his power on losing efforts. Especially if it is at the expense of Joe Frazier. If It's okay to decide williams hit harder than a world champion puncher like Frazier lets hear about the examples. Where are they? I'm happy to accept one example.
Williams never proved he was an elite puncher. You might as well put Lamar Clark, Billy Fox, and Tut Jackson in this poll also because they had similarly padded ko records. Its not about quantity but quality. Had williams been able to successfully step up his game against contenders you might very well see his ko percentage go into free fall. Instead williams not only couldnt knock good fighters spark out but he couldnt even beat them. Whenever the guy failed to notch a win upon stepping up he dropped back down to fighting stumble bums for easy KOs padding his record. Williams has literally one single "marquee" name on his ko ledger: a green terrell. Thats just a simple fact. But an inescapable fact. Its not like Williams didnt have the opportunity to prove his punch. Id be curious to see what fight people are basing his supposed power on. The word of Foreman? The same guy that you see routine posts on all of the crazy things he says? Suddenly because it fits an agenda the guy makes sense? This is his one moment of lucidity? Jerry Izenberg? Izenberg was a New Jersey based sports reporter. Williams fought on the east coast three times losing two of those fights and fought on national tv a handful of times losing most of those. So what exactly is Izenbergs supposedly expert opinion based on other than hot air? See thats the problem. Scrutinize Williams and his record as this monster falls apart like wet tissue in a heartbeat.
Exactly. It's ok to have one good win. But to go down as a great puncher the guy needs to build on it with other important wins. Take Alejandro Lavorante, he knocked out Zora Foley (rated much higher than Terrel was when Williams beat him) and Lavorante began getting talked about as a big dangerous puncher. He never built on it so he never went down as a great puncher. Poor guy died too.
So the power that Shavers showed against Ali and Holmes isn't admissible because he lost against both? That they both named him as the hardest puncher they faced and that the film verifies that he hit them with frightening force doesn't count because he didn't win? That is just utter and utter nonsense. Ali beat Liston, but looking at the film from Liston's fights with Ali and Williams it's just clear as day that Williams hit harder than Ali. Why on earth should I disregard this just because Ali won and Williams lost?
This isn't your opinion? "I think it's fair to say Joe Frazier would likely be the hardest puncher Sonny Liston would ever face".