from looking at the poll results its really easy to see US v UK coming into it,it's really ****ing petty.
Well thats one of the more bizarre definitions I've seen, and surely defeats the object. You must be some sort of prophet, making your lists based on what you havn't yet seen but assume... p4p has to be done on either recent accomplishments and/or skillset and h2h comparisons if they were actually physically matched, hence the term "p4p". And just a little note, Haye cleared out the cruiserweight division just as much as Pavlik is clearning out middleweight, if it helps.
First off yes he is clearing out 160 and should be favored over everyone at the weight (Abraham gives him fits though yes). And you favor Haye over everyone but Peter annd Wlad at heavy? :rofl :rofl :rofl . You haven't even seen the guy at the weight, which is calling him the next Holyfield. Right now I honestly favor about ten heavies over him. Could that change? Of course it could, but guys like Povetkin could box his ears off. And as for 168 and 175 weights for Pavlik he should never go there cause he will get beaten. This is why im a fan of him sticking around 160 and creating a legacy there. It will be tough because of lack of opponents but Abraham and Winky are a good start
by your own logic we shouldn't even consider the hw haye (who ko'd bonin in 1) we should only look at the cw haye who was perhaps even more devestating at cw than pavlik at mw,pavlik seriously struggled with taylor in the second fight and in the first was in trouble,he has been kd'd more often than haye and is not as powerful with less skill,i feel this all allows haye to rank higher. you're contradicting yourself alot in this thread ...
How is it "weird and bizarre" if you say right afterwards the same thing with "h2h comparisons"? I'm doing the same thing but also grading on how they stack up in their weight class (showing how dominant they are at their weight). And lets face it, cruiser is as weak as they come, hence why Haye moved up. Haye is a lot like Pavlik in terms of exciting to watch and lacking amazing skillset, but I just hate how he blows out a protected fighter and all of a sudden he's top p4p material. Enzo was nothing more than a decent gatekeeper to start with
No im just having a hard time getting my point across. Maybe just agree to disagree. And like I just stated in my last post; I don't rank certain wins for Haye as highly as others do. There was absolutely no talk of Haye on p4p lists after his great win over Mormeck and then he beats a C+ level fighter in Enzo and all of a sudden that shoots him over Pavlik? Not in my book....
his victory over braithwaite disputes this.also look at his win over mormeck it compares undobtedly to pavlik's win over taylor and miranda.fragomeni was a great win over a dangerous opponent.haye has a weak skillset,you must be crazy,offensively he is superb,its only defensively that his skillset is weak.his amateur pedigree also disputes this claim and nearly koing solis in round 1 of the world champs lays testament to this.
yea but you have to wonder because of the americanisation of the sport is wins over americans held in higher regard,i would definatly say they are,especially in the americans eyes.taylor is very good,but not world class while i definatly saw mormeck as a world class opponent. enzo isn't a c level fighter,not a chance,he's definatly b material,on the same kind of level as miranda.
I rank Pavliks and Hayes skillsets as equal. Surely you don't think Haye is "way higher" than Pavlik in terms of talent. NOT physical attributes, skillset
Haye was on my P4P list after his win against Mormeck, other people just take a while catching up. Yourself, as you consider Miranda P4P better than Mormeck, I think it might take you quite a while to catch up.....
Haye is a far more varied boxer than Pavlik. Pavlik does what he does very well, but I've yet to see any evidence of that variety from him.
read my first post in my thread,i rank haye's offensive arsenal as higher than pavlik's while i rank pavlik's defence as better than haye's,added to the fact that taking a punch from a cw is worse than a mw it simply compounds his problems. i'd definatly rank haye as a more skillful fighter although pavlik is better fundamentally than haye.
Ok I think we can agree on that. I guess theres different words for it. "Skillful, technical, fundamental" it just gets into a game of words eventually I still rank Pavlik slightly higher than Haye overall though; taking skill, offense, defense, stamina, workrate, etc all into play
that's cool mate,just wanted to gain a bit of insight because i see haye as being rather underrated p4p on here.