Who's more skilled: Ali or Usyk?

Fury probably also mauls, man handles and stops Liston.

 

Nobodies dismissing him. He’s very good, that’s why he pisses on this dreadful era of stiffs as an old man.
That doesn’t mean he makes a prime Ali quit in frustration throwing up his arms and admitting to Dundee that he just can’t catch up with this wizard like Ukrainian.

 

Sure

 

Only Ali cry babies say stuff like “The great Joshua” “Ali quits because Usyk is a wizard” “Usyks not superman” nobody is saying any of that, not anyone serious, people are rightfully noticing that styles exist, size exists and ignoring film of Ali for a version that doesn’t exist is annoying to everybody involved in the discussion. To sum for you fighting long when you are not long is a bad idea, fighting big when you are not big is not a good idea - Futch roughly said it, if you’re tall be taller if you’re short be shorter.

 

The thread lost context when someone said Ali ‘wouldn’t be competitive with Usyk’

 

Saying Usyk would dominate every era is ridiculous , you are saying he’s superman

 

Or maybe he's just that good that he can dominate a great era filled with great fighters that would be great in any era or is that too much for you to concede since it would destroy the legacy of too many of your "greats"?

Because that's obviously what I said..........

 

Lol. You put that so well.

 

I never said that, I’ve said Louis would F him up I’ve said Tyson would kill him, I think Wlad would KO him I also think he’d outbox Vitali, Foreman and Holyfield… my views are varied because I go case by case, I think Ali would lose to Usyk in a one off as he was but in a rematch it would be interesting to see how he’d develop a plan for a southpaw that good.

 

Didn’t you say that Ali wouldn’t be competitive with him, Lewis and Foreman as well ?

Usyk is good, very good, but he isn’t better than those. You seem to think I don’t like him when I’ve said I’m glad he came along and exposed Fury and Joshua etc, I hoped for years a good boxer would come along and beat them. You’re overrating him , that’s all

 

Oh but Ali with his feints, angles, constant movement, fast hands, quick jab, unorthodox upper body movement and counter punching doesn't know how to fight small and make bigger guys miss and chase after him ?

Ken Norton has more ability and defense than any 200 pounder Joe Louis has ever stepped in the ring with. You think Ali wouldn't toy with Buddy Baer, Galento and Abe Simon ? Norton looks like a peak roided up Evan Fields compared to Louis's competition when i watch film. What does Max Schmelling do better than Norton ????? Norton could block, parry, body punch better, had a more varied lead hand and more ways to move his head and upper body because Schmelling is a stiff in comparison, their inside game and counter punching is probably about equal. Is Schmelling even better on the backfoot ? Norton past his prime admittedly gave prime Holmes his toughest fight, Holmes has Norton above Witherspoon, both of whom were world level cross guard users with Witherspoon being smack dab in the middle of his prime.

Jersey Joe Walcott was actually smaller than most of Alis competition and lost to several fringe contenders and a couple journeyman. That crap would not fly under your radar if it were a 70s contender instead. Super heavyweights have always been around. You talk about the trouble and advantages they would bring and ignore all of Alis advantages

 

I don't think Ali matches up with Usyk well yes.

What do any of them do better then Usyk and against Usyk's level of competition?

No I'm giving proper credit to someone consistently beating very good bigger stronger men something very few HWs have been able to achieve

 

And say he is his own father.

To clarify I believe the Christian God is THE God....Im not mocking Christianity. But Usik is not God.

And Ali was much better.

 

Woosh brother, you’re missing the point ay? Louis is more equipped to fight bigger, taller opponents then Ali, his skill permits it - Ali fought long and would not be long that’s the bottom line… Louis is just better, plain better as a pure boxer and no coach worth his salt IMO would disagree with that.

EDIT: Note I don’t think either would dominate today, I think both would should they be fighting a decent schedule pick up losses but betting on a horse to succeed? Louis all day, be a long standing champ? No, no, no - you can’t hold up at that much of a disadvantage as long as he did in his time, couple years sure but it’d be tough.

EDIT 2: Louis could do as well as Usyk doe.

 

I think Ali would knock Usyk out, in his prime anyway.
Ali and Holmes would just jab them to death if they wanted to.
And fair enough Usyk has been consistent and pretty active