Whos the greater fighter SRL or FMJ

Berto - You said "Mayweather took the biggest money fights available". I provided an example of when he did not.

Fan poll - I said Mayweather posted a poll, the premise of which was he would select the fighter with the most votes as his next opponent. I'm aware of who won the poll and that Mayweather did not fight him. The relevance of me mentioning it, was that you said my comment that Mayweather selected his opponent was baseless. Posting a poll asking for fans to select his next opponent infers he has multiple options that he will choose from. So, by definition, on that alone, my claim wasn't entirely baseless, as you claimed. More on this below.

So far, in 6 attempts (including your 1st response to me in this thread), you've failed to list one thing I posted that was nonsense. You have at least referenced 2 x things I posted that you disagree with:

1) Mayweather selected his opponents, which as mentioned above, you stated was a "baseless accusation" - this is bizarre. Of course he did, from the time he was boxing's biggest star, just as every no1 PPV star has, in the main, selected their opponents. The top prize fighters of the day could earn more money fighting Mayweather than anyone else, so they all, or at least most of them, wanted to fight him. He decided which one did, each time. As was the case at points in SRL's career and as is currently the case with Canelo. Seriously, this is a ridiculous thing for you to challenge.

2) SRL's win over Hagler was greater than any Mayweather win - ok, I understand you disagree, but I stand by this position. If you'd said you think Mayweather's Canelo win was greater than SRL's over Hagler, I would have replied "fair enough, I disagree, but your entitled to your opinion". You didn't, you called what I'd written nonsense, and to date, after 6 opportunities to substantiate that claim, you have only managed to reference these 2 specific points, that I made and that you disagree with. The definition of nonsense is "spoken or written words that have no meaning or make no sense". If we posted a poll on here as to which win was greater, SRL's over Hagler or FM's over Canelo, what do you think the result would be? Please don't duck the question and say "I don't know". If you don't know, which do you think would be the most likely to receive the most votes? Again, I have absolutely no problem with someone holding a view that is in the minority, I hold plenty myself, but I'd be a lot more careful than you've been before describing a majority held view as nonsense, given that I am conversant with the definition of that word.

A GGG fight - Are you capable of debating without resulting to straw man arguments? Word for word, I said - "Mayweather was under no obligation to fight someone with a size advantage as great as Martinez or GGG". In a subsequent post, you say - "If you think Mayweather should have fought GGG". The irony is, that in the very same sentence you demonstrate your lack of reading comprehension, you question my level of academic achievement. I'll type it again for you, please read it slowly this time - for me to consider Mayweather as a serious contender for top 10 p4p all time, as opposed to the top 20 I rank him, it would have taken a win over a prime or close to prime Martinez or GGG at 154-160lbs. This time, do you understand that is what I'm saying and that I haven't said I think Mayweather "should have" fought GGG? Because you appear to be reading things that I haven't written.

Unlike you, I read what others have written extremely carefully and don't need to resort to arguing against things people haven't said when debating. Despite the comparison, you didn't specifically post that you think the size difference between Mayweather and GGG was the same as that between SRL and Holyfield, so I won't ridicule you for saying that you did (at it's very core, that is difference between how you & I debate - I focus on what the other person actually wrote and nothing else). You realise that size difference wasn't the same, right?

Finally, where have I discredited Mayweather for winning fights widely? I've said SRL has the greatest 2 wins of he and FM. He does imo & I suspect in the opinion's of the majority of fans with a good knowledge of boxing history back from SRL's time to Mayweather's. He arguably has 4 wins better than Mayweather's best win. In fact, I suspect most posters on here think that he does. I've also said Mayweather beat more world class fighters and has better longevity. I don't think, for example, that Hearns and Hagler are better wins than Corrales and Canelo because Mayweather won wide & SRL in competitive fights. I think Hearns and Hagler are better wins because they are clearly greater fighters than Corrales and Canelo.

Out of interest, what would you say are the 5 greatest wins that SRL & Mayweather hold between them?

 

TLDR. It's below my level to discuss why a Berto fight should be zero'd in on when Leonard got stopped by Camacho in his only age 38+ fight or why Mayweahter should've fought GGG to become a 6 div champion when Leonard only was a three div champ.

I'll refer you to this thread. You can plug in the numbers for Leonard and see that he's far behind May, Pac, and Duran and post them here. https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...n-floyd-mayweather-and-manny-pacquiao.683550/

 

Haha, yeah, of course. Cop out.

Though to be fair, you didn't properly read, or comprehend, any of my posts. I literally posted "Mayweather was under no obligation to fight someone with a size advantage as great as Martinez or GGG". Yet you subsequently posted "If you think Mayweather should have fought GGG". I recommend you take a look into this - https://www.twinkl.co.uk/resources/ks2-english/ks2-reading/ks2-reading-comprehension

 

I fully comprehend. You think that if I guy isn’t taking Ls or getting disputed wins then he isn’t challenging himself, even if he’s beating ATGs while 35+.

 

No, you really don't. Otherwise you wouldn't have said "if you think Mayweather should have fought GGG" in response to a post where I'd literally said he wasn't obligated to.

I rank Packey McFarland above SRL. He either never lost or never lost as an adult (depending on which reports you believe) and most of his key wins read as wide, and certainly clear.

I think SRL has wins over 4 fighters that would appear higher on most credible, well researched, top 100 p4p lists, than the 2nd highest a Mayweather opponent would rank on such a list. And yet, despite that, I rank them virtually neck and neck on my all time p4p list.

I rank SRL #17 and FM #19 on my p4p all time list. How about you?

 

Leonard.

 

I wouldn't favour anyone Floyd beat over peak Benitez.

 

Your use of flowery language doesn't disguise the underlying intention. Mayweather is ahead of Leonard without a GGG fight.

I challenge you to go in that thread I posted and plug Leonard's numbers in and post it here. If you're sincerely trying to be "fair and balanced" (or whatever ridiculous phrase you used) that would be a good starting point rather than coming up with obtuse reasoning to support your preconceived biases.

 

I've read the thread you posted. The core premise is about quantity of ranked fighters beaten. I specifically said Mayweather beat more world rated fighters than SRL in the post you first responded to on this thread & on multiple occasions since. I don't understand why it is so hard for you to grasp that we agree on this point.

Where we seemingly disagree, is that SRL had the greatest wins, certainly when viewed in an historical context.

24 posters gave their p4p top 25 fighters of all time, as detailed here -

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Starting at the consensus greatest, SRL & FM's combined wins are listed as below. I've added ages and comparative size (referencing the lowest weights each fighter 1st won a world title as a reasonable and independent indicator) for further context:

#7 Duran x 2 aged 29 & 38 - SRL = WW; Duran = LW; SRL was bigger
#16 Pacquiao age 36 - FM SFW; MP Fly = FM was bigger
# 25 Tommy Hearns age 22 - both WW = similar size
# 26 Marvin Hagler age 32 - SRL WW; MH MW = Hagler bigger

Even if we discount the 2nd Duran win (in his next fight following the amazing Barkley win) & include FM's over a 2-years younger Pacquiao, that's 3 out of 4 for SRL. Taking into account age & relative size, I think the top 3 all belong to SRL.

Yeah, as I said in the 1st post you responded to in this thread. Most world rated fighters beaten = Mayweather; Greatest fighters beaten = SRL

 

Hard to judge, going off results and longevity you would have to say Mayweather but it isn't that simple is it?

Mayweather will always have question marks seeing as though he almost certainly took PED's, PED's that would have undoubtedly given him more longevity.

Another mark against Mayweather is the timing and circumstances of his biggest fights, he faced Pacquiao several years too late, he also faced Canelo at a catchweight, a catchweight that he insisted on, that is not to be desired.

Leonard fought the better competition and looked more devastating at his best, his timing might not have been as good as Mayweather's but he had faster hands and better combinations, he also hit harder.

If they were both around today I know who I'd rather watch fight.

 

Once again Floyd gets pooped on. It will take 20 yrs but he will be remembered well for his skill set and domination of great fighters. The difference between Floyd and Leonard is minimal as far as greatness is concerned. I’d take Mayweather for his domination over fighters that just don’t get dominated.

 

Floyd was an ATG, imo, and I agree there's not much to choose between he and SRL.

Would you agree Mayweather beat the higher quantity of world ranked fighters and has the better longevity, whilst SRL has the greatest 4 or 5 top wins of the 2, in a historical context?

 

For sure.

 

What a joke.. Mayweather puts featherwight Pacquiao on hold and now people compare him to Leonard.

Leonard > Mayweather

 

I know that Leonard is the sentimental favorite on this forum but he doesnt have enough big wins like Floyd

50 - 0 beats 35 - 5 any day