Why can GSP so easily takedown these great wrestlers?

I guess Kos and GSP could wrestle in freestyle or collegiate. I guess Kos has trained at least a little in freestyle as the transition isn't that great from collegiate. GSP's been training with the national team so that'll be freestyle. Greco-roman, no way.

 

I... I thought college wrestling was freestyle wrestling?

Meh, whatever, I never pretended to be an amateur wrestling expert.

 

Nah, collegiate is a form of folk wrestling. But they are both quite adaptable, more so than the transition from collegiate to greco I would assume. (I'm no expert either)

 

If you take a look at the GSP vs Kos fight... KOS is standing straight up and down. Do you guys understand the difference in his wrestling stance, compared to that stance? GSP would be lucky to get his fingertips on KOS's legs in a wrestling match. You guys are really letting an MMA match distort your perception. In a wrestling match, GSP would not have any of his other tools for KOS to worry about. KOS would be down in a wrestling stance, and GSP would then have to worry about stopping KOS from 100% wrestling, with 100% wrestling. Let alone the fact that in either the 2nd or 3rd period, Kos would have his choice of Up, Down or Neutral.

 

You are absolutely right Widdow, absolutely 100% right. A true wrestling match is VERY VERY different than an MMA fight.

MY point is, GSP totally and COMPLETELY dominated the wrestling game in the MMA match. As such, it certainly is within the realm of possibility that the bigger, stronger GSP could win in a straightup wrestling match.

I didn't say GSP would win, or even that he would necessarily have the edge, but what we have seen and what we know about his training certainly implies that he isn't a no-hoper in this hypothetical competition as you seem to paint him.

Also, I understand that Rashad is not nearly the decorated wrestler as KOS. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that a 40 lb weight difference over KOS might make up a bit of that skill difference.

But yes, you probably know more about wrestling than I do, but GSP's lack of a COMPETITION wrestling background is more a boon to him than a detriment. We just cant KNOW how good he is.

 

I don't know man, I see what you're saying but its like amateur and pro boxing, some boxers get whipped in the amateurs by another boxer who is clearly better in every deprtment and has a better pedigree but in the pro's the inferior boxer grows and matures and by the time he meets the guy who beat him in the amateurs he is equal and becomes better! (Ex Tyson-Tillman)

Its like that, Kos has this incredible amateur predigree and record but GSP has grown and matured in the pro's (MMA is the closest your going to get to real proffesional wrestling) to be Kos' equal in technique and power.

I'd love to see GSP get into the Olympics and win a medal, that would do so much to legitimize the sport of MMA and also prove that GSP is a beast of a wrestler.

 

you think Hughes wanted to get taken down and work off his back?atsch HUghes has never worked off his back before...and you think he would risk having GSP on top of him.....ummmm...NO. they were clinched and i'm sure Matt wanted the takedown but GSP took him down so hard and fast Matt didn't have a say in the matter. And to say KOS would eat him up in a pure wrestling match is a little presumtious...I'll bet George could put up a little bit of a fight...you think George couldn't adapt at all? he trains with olympic wrestlers he does have a clue you know.

 

Amateur wrestling is the only "real" wrestling out there. MMA is nothing like professional wrestling. MMA is a mix of all fighting styles, which is why a great wrestler like KOS can be taken down by a lesser wrestler in an MMA match. There are too many other variables to consider in MMA. As I said before, I am a fan of GSP, and NOT of Kos. However this is just the truth. MMA is NOTHING like wrestling. However, a great wrestling base is probably the best base to start from for an MMA career, because wrestling can be used to much, is a great neutralizer, and is the easiest thing to fall back on when in danger. Also, it deals with controlling an opponent when is a huge plus.

I think you guys would be amazed at how Kos would handle GSP in a wrestling match.

Don't kid yourself in thinking that GSP is just too big for Kos either, they are about the same size.

 

If Hughes had it his way, he would want to have taken GSP down of course. However, he realized quick that he wouldn't do that, and I do believe that he would rather be down on his back, than up on his feet with GSP. At least there, he can look to escape out the back door, catch GSP in a sub, or sweep him. He had no hope at all on his feet. Hardly any on the ground either, because Hughes' wrestling is very overrated to begin with. He is a strong guy, with a wrestling backround... so he used to look pretty dominant slamming guys around. However, Hughes has always looked average in his wrestling ability when fighting someone else with wrestling ability.

 

What are Hughes' wrestling credentials anyway?

 

Submission grappling is wrestling.

Widdow, do you think KOS would handle GSP in a submission grappling match?

 

Also, once again, in the Kos vs St. Pierre fight... the first takedown that GSP got, was catching Kos in the midst of a leg kick. That isn't exactly going to happen in a wrestling match. The second takedown, Kos had just been kicked in the leg, and had both hands up looking to defend strikes when GSP got in on his legs.

Let's not forget that Kos took GSP down as well. And GSP was clearly trying to defend it at the time. The other takedown attempt from Kos was stuffed, it was towards the end of the fight and Kos was noticably exhausted, and gave up on it falling to his back when he got out of position. Once again, a simply matter of GSP being the better fighter.

Guys, this isn't a knock on GSP. He is a much better MMA fighter than Kos. That was painfully obvious when they fought. However, we don't need to go overboard and start pretending that means he would beat Kos in a wrestling match too. Everything is different. He wouldn't be able to hold Kos down either. In wrestling, you GIVE your opponent your back, as you NEVER get your shoulders to the mat. GSP couldn't threaten with any sort of submissions, as he would have to simply hold and control him with good top control, riding the legs, ankle picks, and pinning combinations... AND UNLESS IT IS FREESTYLE OR GRECO, YOU ARE NOT EVEN ALLOWED LOCKING HANDS ONCE YOU ARE ON DOWN ON THE MAT, UNLESS IT IS A PINNING COMBINATION.

 

Submission Grappling is NOT wrestling. Not even close.... and that would be a good match. I would still say that Kos would own GSP on their feet... hard to tell what would happen on the ground. GSP's submissions keep getting better and better... but the match would come down to whether or not Kos could keep St. Pierre down and control him without being caught in a sub. At least he wouldn't have the threat of strikes from their feet... so GSP would not be scoring takedowns.

 

That's all well and good Widdow. I understand your point, and I definitely understand the difference.

I think GSP subs KOS over and over and over again on the mat in another legitimate form of wrestling, being submission grappling. Submission grappling is probably, in my mind at least, the truest form of wrestling there is.

Edit: I just read your post above me, why is submission grappling not wrestling? The International Federation of Associated Wrestling Styles considers it a legitimate form of wrestling. http://www.fila-wrestling.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=111&Itemid=103

 

It isn't even close. The rules, point systems, and ways to win the match are completely different. The only thing the same between wrestling and submission grappling is that they aren't striking.

Honestly... have you ever seen a wrestling match? They are not alike.