Why Couldn't Patterson Get Beyond Round One With Liston?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by djanders, Apr 19, 2021.



  1. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Lol, and good to be back Swag!
    I was a little naughty with swear words and got myself a vacation for a while..
     
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  2. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Happens to the best of us Ferg. :lol:
     
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  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Lol.,Suppose it does buddy.
     
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  4. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    It isn't that he couldn't. He could.
    It isn't that he didn't. He did. A thousand times, in mental simulations, as he sparred, as he worked the bag, or bags, as it were, in his dreams.
    It isn't that he wouldn't. He would. In a third fight. A fight Liston ruined with his behaviour versus Ali. Why? Because he knew the odds had turned against him. You go up against a great fighter three times, even if you win two...that third time...that's the charm.
     
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  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    A lot of fighters were psychologically “not there” in the fights that they lost.

    especially in rematches.

    I don’t think Liston was psychologically there for Ali. I don’t think in rematches Charles or Walcott were psychologically there for Marciano. Buddy Baer against Louis.

    I’m not sure Archie Moore was psychologically there for his vacant title fight with Patterson.
     
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  6. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I wrote that "he couldn't box like Ali or even Machen". Please quote me right.

    And I think it's clear in the Chuvalo fight that Floyd wasn't naturally a boxer. Something he himself said after the fight. He did his best work in mid-range exchanges.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I must say that I find the concept of Floyd and Spinks paralysed by fear and simple sitting ducks quite silly. Some nerves that they didn't get time to work off, yes, but seasoned champions like them frozen with fear? No.

    Had either Liston or Tyson not been that sharp and relentless, they would probably shake those early nerves off and get into it but the guys they shared a ring with just wouldn't let them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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  8. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I don't know if they were frozen with fear but it's not unsurprising if they were entering those fights with no real belief they would win.
    It was possibly the first time ever for them.
     
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  9. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I would find that surprising. Because athletes at that level always seem to have the belief they can win, no matter how far fetched it seems to the objective observer.

    Floyd definitely seemed to be of that ilk. He looked for a third fight with Liston and also a rematch with Ali.

    Maybe Spinks due to age and injuries had checked out at that point and was just looking for one last big pay-check, but it would still surprise me that they guy who became the first LHW to win the HW crown in about 90 years didn't tell himself that, yes, there were things with Tyson that he could exploit that those before hadn't been able to.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I think they check out subconsciously. They can want to win so bad it hurts, just like they always have to be who they are, but deep down, something else inside has let go. They reached their individual goals already. What it took to do it mentally has been spent already. There must be incredible mind games at their level. There’s only so much to use.
     
  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    Of course Ali and Liston just happened to be the two best fighters Floyd ever fought, by a mile. Funny that.

    Liston was also obviously a stylistic nightmare for him.
     
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  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is totally unfounded speculation, though. Only to draw the far fetched conclusion that Liston somehow was past his best when he performed his best.

    We know for a fact that Floyd would gon on to perform in every fight against every opponents that weren't named Liston or Ali. Fighters that were extremely good and had big physical advantages against him. That's all there is to it from a rational standpoint.
     
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  13. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Very true. I don't think Floyd won a fight without exchanging frequently. To jab from a distance coupled with the occasional right cross was never his game.

    So that he would lose against a fighter who crushed him in exchanges and against another one who could keep him from getting into range all night isn't exactly shocking news.
     
  14. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member Full Member

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    And of course Ali just happens to be the Heavyweight GOAT and Liston is considered by many a top 10 H2H force. Patterson simply wasn't on their level.
     
  15. Stiches Yarn

    Stiches Yarn Active Member Full Member

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    Actually, Spinks got himself in a great shape for the fight and he trained with Eddie Futch, who wanted Spinks to use his 5 inch reach advantage to fight tyson form the outside, survive the early rounds and hit Mike with the spink jinx when Tyson roared in. He would have probably a big chance of pulling out an upset if he followed his plan game, but obviously, fear made him blow that chance.
     
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