Why Donaire ranked #3 P4P is right.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Diggersan, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. Janjhalani

    Janjhalani Boxing Terrorist Full Member

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    Donaire should be higher or more like deserve more his 3rd Spot on the P4P if only Shaw didn't f*cked up his career after the Darchinyan fight. Well hopefully Arum keeps Donaire on the main spotlight.
     
  2. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    :roll: Again, the last 10 fights criterion is utter nonsense. The Ring quote about Donaire's last 10 fights was giving him credit more so for the record of knockouts than level of competition. If we use a more reasonable number of last 5 fights, we have:

    Donaire: 132-12-6 (88%)
    Martinez: 172-10-1 (94%)

    I'm sure you'll come back and say you were being charitable by considering last 10 fights because otherwise Martinez appears as 3-1-1. However, the Cintron fight was a clear robbery and the first Wiliams fight was close. Everyone knows Martinez was stuck fighting bums for peanuts in Europe prior to 2008. I don't see why that fact should be held against him when constructing pound-for-pound rankings TODAY.

    Beyond this, how useful is a focus on winning percentage alone for determining degree of difficulty? If Martinez defeats Dzinziruk, no one would consider that a bigger victory or more challenging fight than Donaire's over Montiel. Yet your simplistic way of analyzing fight difficulty would force you to make such a conclusion, as Dzinziruk is undefeated and Montiel has two losses and two draws. Furthermore, the data is quite sensitive to outliers. That one fight with Madalin accounts for over half of the losses on the accumulated record of Martinez's last 10 opponents. Fighting one bum can lead to huge shifts in accumulated winning percentage. Given this sensitivity, I don't see how your method can lead to conclusions about the general level of competition a particular fighter faces.

    I don't see how it's the least bit controversial to say Martinez has been facing stiffer competition than Donaire lately. I also don't see why anyone would want to use your silly method for creating a pound-for-pound list.
     
  3. caneman

    caneman 100% AllNatural Xylocaine Full Member

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    I'm using The Ring's voting panel methods, whose members include 45+ of the world's most notable boxing writers. They said it was very close between Donaire and Martinez. Sure Martinez KO'd Williams. Guess what? He lost to him just 2 fights back. This March 10th, it will a decade since Donaire's last defeat.

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    “It took more time to discuss where Nonito Donaire would be rated in the pound-for-pound rankings than it did to update the entire divisional rankings,” said Nigel Collins, Editor-in-Chief of THE RING magazine. “Advancing him to No. 3 means that he overtakes middleweight world champion Sergio Martinez (No. 3 last week) and world lightweight champion Juan Manuel Marquez (No. 4 last week).

    “The decision was made even more difficult because both Martinez and Marquez have recently defended their titles via knockout against top-notch challengers. In the end, however,
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    . The ‘Filipino Flash’ is on a helluva roll, one that could conceivably see him climb even higher in future months.”
     
  4. garfios

    garfios Dark Lord Full Member

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    Another thing about Nonito, he has been the bigger man in all his fights, is time to fill that frame and stop fighting midgets and definitely Pavlik and Williams are better wins than Vic and el enano Montiel.
    PS. I think he is good but need to move up and find fighters his own size.
     
  5. caneman

    caneman 100% AllNatural Xylocaine Full Member

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    When you say size you mean his length, right? Nonito has a thin frame. Montiel outweighed him by 8 pounds on fight night. He's tall for 118. If he moves up to say 126, and fights Juanma (who is as tall as Donaire), Donaire would be cut in half. As I see it now, when you weigh 126 in the ring, the biggest divisionyou should fight at is 122.
     
  6. purephase

    purephase Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You'll note they were highlighting the METHOD OF VICTORY rather than the STRENGTH OF COMPETITION, something I mentioned in the second sentence of my post. Your post does not address a single issue I raised about your silly method of aggregating opponents' records for determining quality of opposition.