Why is Frazier an ATG?

He's not the consensus GOAT H2H anymore. Lewis seems to have taken that spot. Baer's era had Joe Louis who in terms of accomplishments matches Ali.

 

Do a thread in here and see how your opinion holds up

 

Care to take a poll on either matter?

Also, the number 2 man in the era was also a top 10 ATG. Does the same ring true for Louis's era?

 

I'm not buying it. How can you say that Frazier had more going for him than Foreman?

Foreman had much more going for him than just a left hook (Frazier's right was of no relevance)

Nor do I see any proof that Foreman lost his confidence after the Ali fight

Wasnt that George dominating Joe then sending him to the canvas in 1976?

Joe couldnt do **** to George

also the same year, George came off the canvas twice to stop Lyle. How is he not confident???

If Jimmy could handle Ali no sweat, Lyle, Dunn, Shavers, Foreman, he proved to me he was the elite heavyweight of his time and like World Boxing said on the title of their 1977 cover "why Jimmy Young is the most dangerous heavyweight in the world"

I think Jimmy's resume tops Frazier's

 

I'm not buying it

This is the same argument I've heard when Buster stopped Tyson in Tokyo

If you beat a man in his prime, you must give credit where it is due

Jimmy just had too many tricks for George whereas Joe had none

and Buster too, had too many surpises and moves that Tyson wasnt prepared for

Larry Holmes: I have him ranked third because he was a successful title holder with two wins over Shavers, Norton, Weaver. His versatility is what gets him the nod over Frazier

Plus, Larry went unbeaten in the 70s whereas Frazier took four losses

 

Young had 33 fights in the 70's,and lost 9 of them.

Young handled Ali no sweat? Then what was he doing sticking his upper body out of the ring ?
NB Young did not beat Shavers.

Young beat 2 ranked contenders, one of them twice.
Frazier beat 7 ranked contenders , 2 of them twice.

 

If you think all Frazier has was a left hook and that Jimmy has a better resume then there's no point in continuing this discussion. Those are absurd statements.

 

Fringe top 20-25. Ironically even if he lost to Ali he would still have a respectable resume which shows just how poor the HW division has been lately with so many guys being inactive or taking forever to face each other. Frazier's resume would still arguably be better than some champions including Wilder, Vitali, Mercer, Morrison, Smith, Bruno, Briggs, Martin, Stiverne, etc.

 

Him n SRL arguably have the greatest careers at 40 fights or less. That itself is a huge accomplishment especially w them having top wins w stacked resumes. Ironically both having vision issues.

Second n Third fights w Ali were still close and Foreman was a nightmare for him style wise. All 3 ATGs he never lost to a lesser fighter.

Ellis
Quarry
Ali
Chuvalo
Bonavena


Not bad at all plus he was a defending champion in arguably the greatest decade for hvy boxing. I get u can only beat who's available but he had to still prove himself as a gatekeeper or atg which he did just the later.

 

It's a fair question. If Ali can get all the glory for defeating Jones, Chuvalo, Quarry, Bonavena, Ellis, and Bugner, why can't Joe? I will say Frazier's career was somewhat short, but he packed several good wins into it with Ali being the cherry on top. ATG? Depends on who you are comparing him to I suppose.

 

I won't begrudge Joe his atg rating but those don't make Ali's top six wins. Joe is where he's at because he beat some really good boxers and Ali.

 

Ali's best wins were Joe, Foreman and Norton. Many were questionable or tainted.

 

The 3 x fighters Ali beat that most typically rank highest on all time lists, are Liston x 2, Frazier x 2 & Foreman. 4 of those wins were by stoppage and the 5th was a decision I don't recall anyone questioning. Norton would rank as the 4th best opponent Ali beat & granted at least 1, arguably both, of his decision wins vs Ken were questionable, though Ali was past his best by then.

 

most of them on the way up or the way down

During his peak years,. whipped the top fighters, two of who whipped Joe

Joe didnt know how to handle them, while Jimmy did and while he dint beat Earnie in his formulative years, held him to a draw before even more dramatic improvement.

Definitely NOT another Jimmy Ellis!

With this in mind, how would one handed Joe deal with so tricky an opponent?

 

dont believe me?

compare common opponents and the results

Not so absurd now, is it?

and yes, he did beat Ali