Why Is Jack Johnson Given Credit For Beating Jeffries

I entirely agree.It might have been a Frazier Ali 1.

 

I give Johnson a shade more credit for this win than I do Jeffries for his win over a,37 year old ,alcoholic,tubercular ,Peter Jackson who had ONE fight, a 6rd no dec over a 2-3-1 fighter in 6 years when he fought Jeffries.

Jeffries was 35 when he came back for Johnson ,and, had not fought in 6 years he lost a ton of weight,for his comeback.

Jackson was 37, alcoholic and tubercular,he died 3 years after the fight.

Quid Pro Quo.

 

How do you know Johnson was underfed ? Because he sometimes says so ? Who can tell one thing with this guy. I've read half a dozen books about him over seventy years and there are always conflicting quotes about why he did what he did under what circumstances. Here is what we know. He was stopped by Klondike.

 

Correct. Johnson is 1-1-1 vs Klondike. Hardly impressive.

 

The difference is Jackson was done for in two rounds vs a green Jeffries. Stamina had nothing to do Jeffries vs Jackson. Jackson simply could not take Jeffries power as he was down twice in round two from left hooks after a good showing in round one. According to papers Jackson was at his ideal weight and in good form leading up to the match.

Johnson took 15 rounds to stop old and rusty Jeffreis.

 

Because newspapers of the time said so. I dont think Johnson commented on it if he did I never read it.Point is, in assessing Johnson's chin this fight is not relevant because he retired,without being knocked down.

 

And do you think he could not have done it sooner? Likewise Tommy Burns.

How do you assess "good form without having a fight ?

Jeffries looked in" good form",in training clips for Johnson.

How many rounds a fighter goes in one fight ,in comparison to two different fighters in another fight, have absolutely no bearing on each other.
Jackson was a confirmed alcoholic after the Slavin fight in 1892.

He had one 6rd bout ,then retired to run a gym,for 3 years, had a 6 rds no dec against a no hoper ,then, a further 3 years out.

Jackson was an alcoholc and tubercular when he fought Jeffries ,and ,had only 3 years left to,live,that is not good form ,whichever way you spin it.

 

Can you tell me the dozen books you have read as I would like to read any that I may have missed.
The quote about being under fed can also be found in Roberts biography of Johnson.

 

Is this lie of Jeffries still being repeated? He never lost 100lbs because pictures clearly show him weighing 260-270 tops, you've been owned on this lie before bum, but you still repeat the same old crap, but you are a disingenuous poster. Jeffries was also 35 not 36, only 3years older than Johnson

Heres the difference between Johnson/Jeffries fights:

1. Jeffries ducked Johnson for years before not fancing it in his prime
2. Johnson dominated Jeffries from start to finnish, all this Jeffries only lost because he gassed is BS, he was bullyed from the start. Johnson also dominated Willard until late on while fighting well past his prime in
3. Jeffries showed nothing that troubled Johnson, usually a past prime fighter will at least show something to trouble his opponent. Jeffries was even bullied in the clinches, Jeffries number 1 attribute is strength and he got owned. Strength is the last thing to go
4. The age gap was only 3years, Johnson 32, Jeffries 35. Johnson was 37 against Willard
5. Jeffries trained his ass off for Johnson and looked in great condition, Johnson didnt train and was clearly flabby against Willard
6. Johnson was on the run from the law, untrained, and accepted conditions that meant he was at a huge disadvantage

 

No way Johnson could have won in three rounds. First off he did not have that type of power. Secondly it was not his style. The first four rounds of the fight were even, with Jeffries having the better of it by a shade. As I have said before, I don't think you have seen what I have on film. Johnson waited until Jeffries slowed down, then and only then did he start opening up.

Papers said Jackson was in good form, and at his old fighting weight. Anyone who saw Jeffries spar knew he was past it. That was not the case with Jackson, even though he was past his best too.

 

A 45rds fight in tropical heat.Mendoza avers that it was not hot that day.
Willard said it was" hotter than hell in there",and he was at his premium weight, trained to a fine edge.
Johnson was flabby with rolls of fat on his hips and arse.

Johnson dominated Jeffries in the clinches and laughed at his vaunted strength,the only saving grace for Jeffries was the courage he showed in accepting the licking he took,but ,if I may say so,after reading his pre -fight bravado, and bluster, he had it coming.:good

 

I think are putting too much stock into Ken Burns or Bert Sugar stories.

 

In April, it is not 100+ degrees in Havana Cuba. While I'm sure it was warm, the myth of the temperature of that fight has been exaggerated. Johnson claimed a dive. Even Nat Fleisher who was Johnson's #1 fan said the dive claim was bogus.

 

In your haste to demean Johnson.
You have refuted three statements that I have NOT made .

1. I NEVER said it was 100 + temperature.

2. I NEVER said Johnson could have kod Jeffries in 3 rds.

3. I NEVER said that Johnson took a dive.


Willard, who, was there at the time , :yep said," it was hotter than hell in there,if Johnson was going to lay down I wish he had done it sooner".
Immediately after the fight, Johnson stated the fight was on the level, only in later life did he sell a signed confession to Fleischer that it was a dive. Fleischer did not believe him and neither do I.

We agree on TWO things Johnson did not have Jeffries power ,and he was not usually an aggressive fighter,which is PRECISELY why Jeffries lasted as long as he did.
You have unwittingly made my point for me.
I have seen all the film extant of Johnnson Jeffries ,and have told you so innumerable times.You are the only person I have come across who think Jeffries was in front after 10 rds,and I include ringside writers in this.
I am sorry but you have the bit between you teeth once again, and there really is no point in this continuing.

 

Ken Burns has no stories of his own to tell, he is a film docucmentary maker ,and lifted in its entirety, Unforgiveable Blackness,which was written by Geofrey C Ward.
Ward made a handsome ackowledgement, and thanks to Randy Roberts for his input in his book ,and BOTH Ward and Burns thanked Roberts for his help in their respective projects.

Roberts biography of Johnson drew rave reviews,from The Washington Post, And The New York Times,and great praise
from fighters such as Floyd Patterson.
"The finest sports biography I have read in over a decade, lucid ,and ,extremely well - researched"

ps
Roberts book, " Papa Jack," mentions Johnson being half starved and underfed for the Klondike fight.:good

ps Burns also made a very good documentary on the History Of Jazz.