Why is/was Joe Calzaghe hated on

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Dance84, Jan 23, 2019.



  1. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    You're full of ****.

    Nunn was barely relevant.

    Hill lost to Jones and Dariusz, then jumped to cruiser.

    Griffin and Johnson were faded and would've done little for Calzaghe's resume.

    Tarver was occupied from 2003-2005. I guess Joe could've fought him around 2008, but Hopkins already beat him.
     
  2. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You said: "168 sucked at the time..."

    Yes, you were right.


    So:

    It sucked.

    He couldn't get the Ottke fight.

    He starved himself in order to make weight.


    Yet despite the above, you don't think it was obvious that he should have moved up earlier, INSTEAD of fighting the guys he did?

    Give me a break.

    So what if Nunn, Griffin and Hill etc had lost?

    Look at who Joe fought instead.

    They were recognisable names who would have raised his U.S. profile earlier.

    Yes, Tarver was tied up. But we're looking hypothetically if Joe had moved up earlier. If he'd have moved up in the early 00's, he could have been in the mix with the likes of Tarver. And that would have been better than fighting McIntyre and Pudwell etc.

    Targeting Nunn, Tarver, Dariusz, Griffin and Reggie etc, would obviously have been better than fighting guys like Veit, Salem and Mkrtchan etc.

    You're talking absolute nonsense.
     
  3. EJC83

    EJC83 Active Member Full Member

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    Herol, Clazaghe did indeed say that but, at that point in his career, with nothing left to prove and one big final payday against a guy who was still considered great (he'd just beaten Trinidad in his previus fight) it made sense to take the Jones fight and go back on his words. He ended up breezing through it, after the early knockdown and did to Jones what no other boxer ever managed, he made him look like a fool. Others before, and after, may have beaten Jones, but nobody ever did that to him.
     
  4. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    More nonsense.

    Nobody considered Roy still great.

    Tito hadn't fought in 3 years, and he failed to make the 172 C-W.

    Nobody else did that to Roy? Glen Johnson bullied him for 9 rounds and then knocked him unconscious, which is why Joe said the following:

    "I've no interest in fighting Jones. He's no longer a great fighter. Tarver only beat him because he was shot, and Johnson did the same"
     
  5. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Veit wasn't the worst guy around. I don't know why you keep bringing that up. Nor was the weight an issue considering he made 168 until his late thirties without coming in over.

    Moving to 175 would've made sense for a title shot and he was interested in Jones. For whatever reason, he wasn't getting any fights with Erdei/Dariusz/Ottke but I suspect that was due to their management.

    Calzaghe did have a completely inexplicable 2004 though (Salem and an unknown), I'll give you that.
     
  6. EJC83

    EJC83 Active Member Full Member

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    Nobody looked that technically superior to Jones, in the same ring as him, before or after.

    I, and many others, still considered Jones to be a very good boxer at that time, despite the losses.

    I don't think fighting Jones was his best move, and he went back on his word, but I can understand why he took it and it shouldn't tarnish what he'd done beforehand, which was exceptional.
     
  7. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I keep bringing Veit up, because Joe fought him AGAIN, despite the fact that he'd already beaten him in a round. That was a disgrace for a guy of Joe's abilities. He was far too good to be taking fights like that for the WBO.

    Of course the weight was an issue. Again, he had to kill himself to make weight. And for who?

    Moving to 175 earlier made perfect sense. He had Showtime's backing. They rated him highly and they wanted him to fight in the U.S. to raise his profile. But he didn't want to, so they lost interest.

    It's okay to say things like "Griffin was faded" "Nunn wasn't relevant"

    Again, they were recognisable names to target.

    Let's remind ourselves who Joe fought from Eubank to Lacy:

    Sobot
    Gimenez
    Reid
    Thornberry
    Starie
    Sheika
    Woodhall
    Veit
    McIntyre
    Brewer
    Jiminez
    Pudwell
    Mitchell
    Mkrtchan
    Salem
    Veit
    Ashira

    Just 7 pounds up were:

    Roy
    Dariusz
    Griffin
    Nunn
    Reggie
    Hill
    Tarver
    Harding
    Woods
    Rochigianni
     
  8. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What are you talking about?

    By his own admission, he had a shot fighter stood in front of him.

    He was gun shy and hadn't had a top level win for exactly 5 years.

    We know why Joe took the fight: Ego.

    A fight with Pavlik was there instead. A fight where he'd have gotten huge credit, which would have been easy, but without having to split everything 50/50.
     
  9. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Veit was a mandatory the second time around.

    Woodhall, Reid, Mitchell, Brewer, and Veit were decent. The problem with moving up was there was no title shot. What Calzaghe did draws parallels to Hopkins and GGG. His level of competition went up when better fighters became available at his weight.

    And you're ignoring that Tarver and Harding were fighting eliminators, Hill was a cruiserweight, Nunn and Rocky were basically done by 2000, and Dariusz was fighting out of Germany like Ottke.
     
  10. EJC83

    EJC83 Active Member Full Member

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    Jesus, you get so overly emotional about someone's opinion man, it's just boxing, it's just opinons, listen to the dude.

    I said that I don't think the Jones fight was his best move, but I understand why he took it, and if you think it's for ego that's fine, I personally don't think it was, and I believe that Joe wanted that fight a lot earlier in his career, again, if you don't that's fine.
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I know Veit was a mandatory. But why was a man of Joe's ability fighting for an organisation that pitted him against a guy he'd already beaten in a round? An organisation who had zero respect. An organisation who moved guys up their rankings even after they'd died. The WBO were a joke back then.

    You can't say there wouldn't have been a title shot if he'd have moved up. There's no reason why he couldn't have moved up the rankings into a mandatory position, or created interest in a fight with Roy by impressing the U.S. public and media. He had the ability. He had the backing. He knew Ottke wouldn't face him at SMW. Also, the WBO stated that if he decided to move up, they'd make him the mandatory challenger to their current LHW champion.

    I'm not ignoring anything regarding Tarver. Joe might have been in a similar eliminator. Yes, Nunn was faded. But fighting a guy like that with name recognition would have given him more exposure than fighting an unknown european fighter in a WBO defence.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  12. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm not overly emotional about anything.

    You must be just interpreting my posts that way.

    Why on earth would you think that Joe wanted a fight with Roy earlier?

    He's on record stating that he wasn't chasing Roy as he didn't want tough fights.

    He's on record stating that he'd have needed the 'Crown Jewels' due to the risk.

    They fought on different continents and in different divisions.

    It doesn't take a lot of working out.

    If you're killing yourself to make weight in order to fight C class opposition when you're in your 30's, it's abundantly clear that you don't want to fight the world's best fighter.

    You're entitled to your opinion like everyone else. But facts are facts. He did absolutely nothing to try and fight Roy earlier. Those fake call outs were cringeworthy.
     
  13. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    Because Veit beat Brewer.

    Calzaghe wanted to move to 175 and fight Jones. You're throwing around theoreticals here. Calzaghe wouldn't have been able to clean house later at 168 when it got good if he'd been fighting a shot, coke dealing Michael Nunn at 175.

    This content is protected
     
  14. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    He did not want to fight Roy at 175.

    Get real man.

    He wouldn't move up to LHW.

    He would not raise his profile by fighting in the U.S.

    Showtime dropped interest in him.

    You can't say he wanted to fight Roy at LHW, when he was still killing himself to make SMW even when he knew Ottke wouldn't fight him.

    No, if he'd have moved up earlier, he wouldn't have cleaned out the division against Kessler and Lacy. But on the other hand, he could possibly have fought the likes Roy and Hopkins earlier, and gotten a lot more credit.
     
  15. HerolGee

    HerolGee Obsessed with Boxing booted Full Member

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    beats beign wrong twice in arow.
    its fine if you think the opposite of joe calzaghe when he said hes not chasing roy jones

    this incidentally is the 2nd time you've tried to claim the exact oppsite of whatjoe claimed and did. DOes it not bother youthat the guy you are defending passionately, thinks you are wrong twice in a row.